Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

sorry, who?

who?

Right, I didn't say Israel had been successful in doing those things. I said israel fell into someone's trap.

A pp said that there were other ways that Israel could have achieved those objectives(save hostages, take out Hamas) and I said, I'm interested, tell me how.

That isn't an answer though. (I suspect there is no answer.)

They haven't saved the hostages. They rescued 3, shot 3. The rest were released by negotiation. They haven't dismantled Hamas either.

7 months, 10s of 1000s dead and the majority of Gaza destroyed and they haven't done either of the things you have mentioned.

Oh, I have posted before. I have been on mumsnet for about 16 years.

I am not a superfan of anything that is happening in Gaza now, far from it; but I think Hamas are vile and I am very interested in what is happening on the University campuses.

It's actually funny how 7 months on people are still constantly asking this question, insisting that they're being genuine. It was asked a couple of pages back too.

I would be genuinely very interested to know how you think Israel could otherwise have proceeded, to save the hostages and dismantle a terrorist organisation.

It would have been great to have avoided the current war; but it seemed to me that Hamas laid a trap and Netanyahu followed inevitably into it.

Interesting influx of posters I've never seen before here who are super-fans of Israel's actions in Gaza, particularly the latest assault on Rafah.

The students in Universities and Colleges are the future politicians.

They don’t support Hamas but the freedom of the Palestinians.

gilan is that you?

You're insulting all our intelligence with your analysis

A manner like this includes choosing to commit multiple violations of international law, to the extent that there are investigations into charges of war crimes and genocide. No country should have the right to do that.

There were alternative options which could have been used, which arguably could have been more effective in achieving aims of saving hostages and dismantling a terrorist organisation. But this was what has been chosen by a far-right government with stated aims of killing Palestinians of all ages, expanding illegal settlements and preventing the existence of a Palestinian state in any form.

@Gunnersforthecup if this is all Hamas fault can you explain to me why is Israel behaving the way it’s behaving in the West Bank? More deaths than ever before 7-10. They’ve been killing and arresting many people since 7-10. Many of these killings can be classified as crimes.

hamas didn’t start this on 7-10. This was happening from long before. And it’s yet happening in whole Palestine

Hamas thinks it is winning the social media war. I think all those students in tents are being duped by Hamas, poor kids.

Saying that you care about the innocent children caught up in this (read: made homeless, orphaned, maimed, blown to pieces) sounds disingenuous when you can't bring yourself to criticise those who are actually killing them, or even acknowledge that they are the ones doing the killing.

insulting me doesn't help your argument along much

Hamas set up such a big threat to the Israeli state that it had little choice but to give a substantial and warlike response. Hamas was deliberately provocative there.

Israel is surrounded by arab states and if they don't defend themselves over a matter like this, their state is in danger of very existing. That is why their allies are conflicted. No one wants a war (except perhaps Hamas and Hamas' allies for their own ends) but Israel had to take action.

And I think if Israel does disintegrate as a state there will be a very significant problem indeed for those Jewish people and world peace as a whole, thinking back to WWII and its disasters.

Don't you feel guilty for supporting rapists and murderers, who deliberately started a war and then hid behind babies? Who recklessly endangered all those little children for their ends?
Who is supporting this????

won't you feel really guilty for being duped by Hamas and co?
Who here is being duped by Hamas?

I do not feel bad at all, for stating what appears to be the truth

I was asking if you think you will feel bad if the ICJ declare it genocide. To most people that will mean that it is the truth, it was in fact genocide. Like I said you don't need to answer if you don't want to.

Don't you feel guilty for supporting rapists and murderers, who deliberately started a war and then hid behind babies? Who recklessly endangered all those little children for their ends?

I would if I had been doing that.

Where do you get your critical thinking skills? The kindergarten school of conflict because honestly your analysis makes it sound like a schoolyard fight.

it can be called war, obviously

As has been explained many times, the stated Israeli government position has been that the return of hostages would not result in the Israeli military stopping their assaults and airstrikes. They want "total victory". There are two routes to an end to hostilities - one is a negotiated ceasefire, the other is when there's nobody left to kill.

It is very different, for one thing it has been going on for 75 years!

One people is being sytematically bombed and starved, and moved on and on, and now being told to leave the one area they were told to move to be safe. And some calling for them to leave their country altogether and leave it to the war mongers. What else can it be called but genocide.

I am not Palestinian, I am not Muslim- I am just a human being, with eyes, ears, a sould and a heart.