Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

It isn’t genocide according to most people’s understanding of the word. Israel is in no way trying to eliminate the Palestinian identity or people.

To try to make an equivalence with what the Nazis did to the Jews is wrong (very politely put). What Hamas did on October 7th on the other hand shows their genocidal intent, it was the systematic slaughter of defenceless people, many of them hippy peaceniks.

It would get closer to the (modern) definition if Israel attempted to keep Gaza and settle it and drive the Palestinians away. I don’t think that will happen. If it does, I will have to eat my words. But it is not a genocide until that intention is shown.

I know everyone on this board claims that they condemn Hamas although one attempted to separate the military wing from the political wing, when they are the same organisation with the same aim of eliminating all Jews, but I rarely see it mentioned in posts. You cannot discuss whether Israel is committing atrocities or war crimes without this context or admitting that part of their enemy’s modus operandi is the slaughter of their own people in order to win the PR battle and put pressure on Israel.

It is a complex situation with innocent civilians caught in the middle.

*were

Great news that the US has paused a shipment. They are disgusting- shipping out bombs to them on the one hand and telling them to stop killing so many civilians on the other.

Where other genocides declared genocide as they were happening or did it take a few years for them to be declared and convicted for it ?

to be honest I’d rather be a tik tok sheep that is not happy with the way Israel has been behaving for years than to look to another side and pretend innocent civilians aren’t being killed

Other ways in which aid is being impeded from getting into gaza - the US pier is complete but bad weather is preventing it being towed into position and a second aid convoy from Jordan passing thro' the west bank was attacked by settlers

Good to see that the US is putting real pressure on Israel to limit this incursion into Rafah @Scirocco

William Burns CIA director/US negotiator visiting Netanyahu today

They have also told them to re-open Kerem Shalom now [within the next 24 hours starting yesterday] because the humanitarian aid situation is so dire

Little aid in stock, looting of warehouses in the combat/evacuation zone and running out of fuel to distribute any remaining food/medical supplies

Conflicting reports on twitter about the state of al-Najjar hospital Rafah's largest hospital which is in the middle of the combat zone

And I'm not Jewish or Israeli either.

I also think the G word is sadly losing its original meaning in the way it's being bandied about by dimwits who never picked up a book on the Middle-Eastern conflict in Their Lives.

No one has been Convicted of Genocide here but it did happen in WW2 and Darfur etc

People should be ashamed to use and abuse that word to the extent that its meaning has now been SO diluted.

Total TikTok Sheep 🐑 .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68974624

The US reports it has 'paused' a shipment of bombs.

Egypt receives a huge amount of funding from USA. The government of Sisi is all but a dictatorship.

The Government, who knows? Sisi is a puppet of the Egyptian military who are puppets of the USA and are happy to receive billions in "aid" from America.

The people, increasingly angry at the Government’s impotence. An Egyptian rebel group just killed an Israeli citizen whom they alleged was a spy.

This little girl passed away in yesterday’s bombing of Rafah. She was pulled from the rubble.

Trigger warning

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6pHxJIN0ZI/?igsh=M25pbGVyZGF2dnFm

This little boy suffered horrific injuries in Rafah. They were looking to have him evacuated but are unable to do so.

Trigger warning
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6rM1trKEJE/?igsh=dGlxODhobm5nbGM0

Wasn’t this border controlled by Egypt ? Is Egypt happy about it ?

They could, but they won't. Hames don't care for their people, they are mere owns to them in their aims.

So why are they killing babies then?

Israel promised U.S+Egypt that Rafah op is limited to taking over border crossing from Hamas, and they plan to hand over control+operation of Rafah border crossing to private U.S. contractor, ex-SpecOps doing security around Africa and Mideast,
Haaretz

There's so little information coming out. It's shocking that between banning foreign journalists and killing most of the local ones, and thereby scaring many of those remaining into stopping their work, we're not getting any information of the atrocities those of us with eyes and brains know are happening. It's so frightening.

And with that, I'm going to stop helping the derailment.

Examples:

Negotiations - There are reports of hostage deals having been proposed by Hamas just days after their capture. There have been multiple opportunities to come to ceasefire agreements, which could also cover options such as requiring perpetrators of crimes be handed over to an authority to face legal proceedings, etc.

Force - Israel and its international allies have the resources to engage in far more precise, targeted military operations, as has recently been demonstrated. These tactics have been used when convenient. However, Gaza has just been destroyed.

The sex and age distributions of casualties is very close to the population distributions, indicating that it is likely that reasonable steps to mitigate civilian casualties have not been taken. That's backed up by analyses of airstrike targets, video footage of military operations, eyewitness accounts, etc.

Humanitarian workers, journalists and healthcare professionals have been threatened, detained and killed.

There is evidence of aid being withheld, of 'evacuation information' being confusing or inaccurate.

There is evidence of torture and of military personnel expressing a desire and intention to kill every Palestinian, including children.

Thank You

All Eyes on Rafah

Yeah sorry, I'm going to stop helping the derailing now. The focus needs to be on those in Rafah, not eejits who think they know better than respected experts in this field.

You know by doing the right thing. Asking for exchange of hostages, the perpetrators to be brought to justice. This was planned by the military wing of Hamas. No other part of Hamas knew this was going to happen. Israel has a number of agents in Hamas. They would have easily been able to bring all involved into account.

If Netanyahu had done this the world would have supported him. This would have made relations between Israel and the Middle Eastern countries closer.

Back to the thread
https://www.unicef.org.uk/press-releases/there-is-nowhere-safe-to-go-for-the-600000-children-of-rafah-warns-unicef/

So your argument is Hamas are more clever than dumb old Israel who despite their billions of dollars, their intelligence and their military support from the West just walked unknowingly into Hamas' trap and blew up most of Gaza? Poor old Israel too stupid to realise they had been duped?