Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

@SummerFeverVenice call me cynical but think that this is about building an alibi for the 'tragic mistake/mishap' - initially it was the nearby 'Hamas compound' but than was blown out of the water by the publication of the independent satellite imagery [posted on the other thread]

Agree with you that these tents are already a fire-trap without anyone chucking explosives at them and that would be a risk known to the IDF [one hopes]

The Hamas cache of explosives [no longer in a 'compound' - see satellite images] but just in one of the tents brings it back to the 'human shield' story even tho' with their 'precise intelligence' they'd surely know that the Hamas officials they were targeting would not be without weapons/arms

IDK maybe I'm wrong

“found the blaze was caused by a secondary explosion.”
”the military fired two 17-kilogram (37-pound) munitions”

Bomb #2 was the secondary explosion. There were no further explosions.

“Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, the chief military spokesman, said Tuesday that the military fired two 17-kilogram (37-pound) munitions that targeted two senior Hamas militants. He said the munitions would have been too small to ignite a fire on their own and the military is looking into the possibility that weapons were stored in the area.”

Have we not been seeing for months the fact that Palestinians have been reduced to building little cookfires with scraps or small gas canisters? And where are these located? Just by the doorway of their tents or between tents because they are so closely jammed together. You drop a bomb on several tents each with a cook fire surrounded by flammable fuel and right next to flammable tents and bedding and this is what you get.

It is entirely predictable and the idea that families with children would be sleeping on top of munitions is outlandishly bizarre. You would have seen multiple explosions if this had been a case and eyewitnesses don’t report the airstrikes followed by lots of other big bangs.

None of this has been or is going into Gaza as humanitarian aid to be stolen.

Where have you been? Anything and everything that could be used by Hamas- including fertiliser and sugar- are banned as dual use.

There are also hundreds other things banned that aren’t really dual use too.

In addition, the IDF is destroying every farm in their path to ensure no home-made fertiliser.

Anyway back on topic

Israeli army says it used small munitions in Rafah airstrike, and fire was caused by secondary blast

The Israeli military says an initial investigation into a strike that sparked a deadly weekend fire in a tent camp in the southern Gaza city of Rafah has found the blaze was caused by a secondary explosion.

Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, the chief military spokesman, said Tuesday that the military fired two 17-kilogram (37-pound) munitions that targeted two senior Hamas militants. He said the munitions would have been too small to ignite a fire on their own and the military is looking into the possibility that weapons were stored in the area.

this sounds more likely that the 2000lb bombs reported earlier - no massive craters on the satellite images or is this the rumoured Hamas munitions dump?

How is the fact that Hamas are stealing from the people of Gaza and using the people's fertilzer by the tonne as well as sugar for their milliles to kill the ordinary people of Israel??

No that's not what I'm saying

That's what you are saying - over and over again

It's so far off topic it's nearly on the moon

So are you saying that fertilizer and sugar destined for the ordinary people of Gaza is not being used by the tonne is being used by Hamas to fuel their short and long range rockets to attack Israeli civilians???

That's not the way paragraphs work they are standalone pieces of written language which don't require reading the whole piece, should have internal consistency and more importantly communicate a logical train of thought

If you'd said it was a typo/formatting error that might have shone more light on what you were trying to express

Rather than doubling down ad infinitum and never admitting you're wrong/mis-informed whatever you want to call it

It make good "sense" if you deciede to read the whole or at least more than you quoted. I will repost some of it in the vain hope you are able to understand more easily

Sugar that is supplied as food for the people of Gaza is stolen by Hamas to fuel their rockets which are fired at the people of Israel like they did again the other day using "long rang rockets" that require dozens of large packs of sugar per rocket

Hamas uses its people as human shields, dresses in civilian clothing and then blames Israel for the deaths of ordinary people of Gaza inc some women and men they still hold hostage

All this would stop as soon as Hamas surrender
Hamas is a nasty, disgusting group of people that drove out, killed their own people of a opposition group when Israel took out settlers from Gaza many years ago. Hamas drove out Fatha just because this group of people from Gaza were leaning towards friendship with Israel

Also Israel has not killed that many Hamas so far I don’t think. Not that long ago on the television I saw an Israeli spokesperson say the figure was 10,000. But there were 30,000 - (40,000?) to start with. So that would mean lots are left.

I have tried searching but cannot find facts on this.

This war could go on for very many years, as BN has said.

@NerdWhoEatsMedlar it tends to fit with the US intelligence report that Hamas has recruited thousands more fighters in recent months which was ridiculed above

.

Playing Whack-a-Mole with Hamas is not a sound military strategy.
Hamas get to hang out in those long, thin, interconnected bomb shelters (aka tunnels).
The people on the surface get killed.

The only way out of this is to sit down and work out how to make Hamas redundant.

This is a bit shocking - thought that the only 4 remaining Hamas battalions are in Rafah

Three Hamas battalions defending Jabalia refugee camp: War monitors

Three Hamas battalions are fighting to defend the Jabalia refugee camp in northern Gaza and not just one battalion that Israel’s military planners had believed was operating in the area, war monitors report.

Sorry to interrupt but, some news on Rafah

Israeli tanks reach centre of Rafah, say witnesses

Several Israeli tanks on Tuesday reached the centre of Rafah, witnesses told Reuters, three weeks into a ground operation in the southern Gaza Strip city.

The tanks were spotted near Al-Awda mosque, a central Rafah landmark, the witnesses said. The Israeli military did not immediately comment on their account, saying it would issue a statement about the Rafah operation later.

Israel has been pounding the city with airstrikes and tank fire today, pressing its offensive despite international condemnation of an attack that sparked a blaze in a tent camp for the displaced, killing at least 45 people.

No. Which make the long wordy explanations on every topic under the sun even more bizarre.

@DistinguishedSocialCommentator while I doubt many people would disagree with condemnation of Hamas, it's incorrect to assume that their surrender would lead to a cessation of hostilities in the absence of an agreed and enforceable ceasefire/peace agreement. The Israeli government, agencies and 'settlers' have made it clear that they intend to continue their actions, that surrender would not be sufficient, that release of hostages would not be sufficient.

But this is something which has been explained multiple times on multiple threads.

This thread is about the bombing of civilians, many of them displaced civilians who have already experienced significant trauma and injuries, in an area of high population density, by the same military force that drove them there.

If you can condemn the use of relatively low-tech missiles against a significantly more technologically well-resourced country, I would hope you would also condemn the use of significantly more powerful weaponry against other civilians, too.

And perhaps retract your previous slurs against people highlighting the need for hospitals to have fuel in order to try to save the lives of innocent people, including children, after they've been bombed and shot.

It is indeed disgusting to learn that Hamas does not use "fuel" as delivered to hospitals for their rockets which Hamas has fired indiscriminately at Israeil towns and cities by the thousands and again the other day

This doesn't even make sense

It is indeed disgusting to learn that Hamas does not use "fuel" as delivered to hospitals for their rockets which Hamas has fired indiscriminately at Israeil towns and cities by the thousands and again the other day

As disgusting as above is that Hamas according to one of the regular posters on this threads uses "fertilizer and sugar to fuel rockets."

Fertilizer is supposed to used for gaming, and growing crops but Hamas steals this from their people to use as rocket fuel, rockets they aim at the people of Israel

Sugar that is supplied as food for the people of Gaza is stolen by Hamas to fuel their rockets which are fired at the epole of Israel like they did again the other day using "long rang rockets" that require dozens of large packs of sugar per rocket

Hamas uses its people as human shields, dresses in civilian clothing and then blames Israel for the deaths of ordinary people of Gaza inc some women and men they still hold hostage

All this would stop as soon as Hamas surrender
Hamas is a nasty, disgusting group of people that drove out, killed their own people of a opposition group when Israel took out settlers from Gaza many years ago. Hamas drove out Fatha just because this group of people from Gaza were leaning towards friendship with Israel

DistinguishedSocialCommentator ·Yesterday 11:23
MrsSkylerWhite · Yesterday 10:19

@DistinguishedSocialCommentator
You know they can go to the SAFE ZONES and that is a fact”
**
You do understand that the area of Rafah struck by the Israeli bombardment is within a designated humanitarian safe zone?

You do understand that that is where the soldiers from IDF were killed by rocket and mortar attacks by Hams on the "humanitarian crossing," - YES??

Yesterday, a massive number of long range rockets were fired from that area at Israel's cities, yes!!!

HTH”
**
Soldiers, yes. Personally, the idea of war is disgusting. If you sign up as a soldier, though, that’s the risk you knowingly take.
Upwards of 40 civilians were killed by Israel, in an area they had been told they would be safe.
What’s wrong with you?

I was succeeding in proving that according to Reuters and to Haaretz what you said happened re Hamas targeting IDF soldiers at the Humanitarian Aid Crossing did not happen.

Most of Hamas’ current rockets are actually repurposed unexploded IDF bombs previously dropped on Gaza. They cut them open and use the explosives from the 10-15% of bombs that fail to explode.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/hamas-is-using-unexploded-israeli-ordinance-but-the-new-york-times-frames-it-differently/

If you're mistaken about fuel requirements, @DistinguishedSocialCommentator , it might be worth considering whether you might also be mistaken about issues such as 'humanitarian zones', who is responsible for the majority of attacking and impeding aid, and that when healthcare professionals are saying hospitals need fuel to function, that's not "bleating" but a statement of fact.

The aid is inspected at checkpoints well outside the crossings, so they aren’t inspecting aid while under attack by Hamas. The only attacks, accidental or not, recorded thus far on humanitarian aid convoys by all international aid agencies are by the IDF and settlers.

@DistinguishedSocialCommentator
Reuters is more correct than most
About news in the US, but a lot less correct than The Jerusalem Post about news in Israel which I linked you to. So this below is complete BS:
Hams lot stopped the humanitarian aid by firing missiles, rockets, mortars etc at the IDF who were passing through humanitarian aid by checking it

Here is the report again, please take the time to read it
The rockets were fired from Eastern Rafah toward Kerem Shalom on 5 May prior to the IDF ground invasion of Rafah. It was done while Eastern Rafah was being pounded by artillery shelling and airstrikes and had been since 1 May- so a lot more rockets were going in the opposite direction.

The soldiers killed and injured were not at the crossing nor were they checking humanitarian aid. The IDF closed the crossing in response/retaliation.
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-799923

(btw, I do not deny October 7th or any other Hamas attack that happened.)

Some bleat on about "lack of fuel" - where does hams get the thousands of gallings of fuel for these missiles??? Hamas again the other day fired a mass of long-range missiles aimed at cities in Israel - you'd need three tanker loads of fuel for those never mind the daily firing of smaller ones
It’s already been pointed out that fuel for rockets doesn’t come in tankers and is not the diesel or petrol needed for ambulances and hospital generator, for desalination plants and water pumps, or for sewerage systems.

I just wonder where you are getting your evidently extremely poor information from such that you repeat some very wrong headed things.