Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

There were photos of al-Najjar on twitter yesterday of the hospital empty but still intact - but who knows what the situation is today

'Human shields'. Never before this have I heard people dismiss people being killed because they are 'human shields'. I can't imagine the same people would have been shrugging if the police blew up the Bataclan the night of the terrorist attack there rather than raiding and just killing the actual terrorists because everyone else were just 'human shields'. Yet it is constantly used as an excuse for mass killings in Gaza, what else could they do but kill everyone in ICU they were human shields 🤷🏻‍♀️

Well if that's the case that's a death sentence for 200 dialysis patients at the hospital.

I fail to see how attacking hospitals achieves Israels stated goals.

That's fine we can use the term war crimes instead and the longer ruling by the ICJ:
ICJ ordered Israel to take specific provisional measures to prevent the crime of genocide against the Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip - they have not taken any of the provisional measures to prevent the crime of genocide

Al-Najjar hospital confirmed to be no longer functioning

''The majority of residential homes and farmland have been cleared, as well as the central part of Rafah city, including the vicinity of al-Najjar Hospital, which is the only large health facility in Rafah city. That facility, which has been ordered to evacuate, is not operational at all, putting more pressure on the city’s remaining health facilities.

There are reports of more casualties being taken to field hospitals in the western part of the city, including the Kuwaiti Hospital, a small health facility that is largely unprepared and unequipped to receive a large number of casualties.''

May I add:

• Islamists
• Arabs
• Why can't Egypt, Jordan just take the Palestinians.

Is it only terms which are offensive to Jewish people that you would like to see banned? Or can we also start a list for those who are offended by terms used to refer to Palestinians?

These are some terms I personally find offensive…

• ‘collateral damage’
• ‘yes it’s sad but this is what happens in war’
• ‘neutralised’
• ‘terrorists’ (when liberally applied without evidence to justify deaths)

@Dulra so if as you suggest, people should wait for a further ICJ ruling on this, I would suggest that the word “genocide” is not used of this conflict in the meantime. As it is so emotive, (and adopting this usage is also suggesting that you know more than the ICJ currently does)

and it is also liable to derail the thread.

It is perfectly possible to discuss what is happening without using this controversial term,I would suggest.

@Dulra ,

‘Lets wait for the ICJ ruling on this, no idea how you can be so sure on this. You must be party to all the legal documents and evidence that has been presented to the ICC?’

Yes, let’s wait, you too are assuming the conclusion.

‘It is irrelevant what community they are part of no idea what it has to do with anything, they definitely do not behave the same way as the countries they claim to align themselves to.’

It is more relevant than you realise. Countries which trade with other civilised countries and share education etc etc have a lot to lose by going against the ethics of this countries. It was ultimately this lack of acceptance that ended Apartheid (amongst other things).

‘Most peoples understanding of the word is wrong then, the legal definition of genocide is broader than "eliminate the Palestinian identity or people"’

Yes, I know the definition has been widened, which IMO devalues the term. Now we need a new word for what genocide used to be. In any event, the ICC has NOT declared it a genocide and, until they do, it is you making assumptions, not me.

‘Where has anyone said they are? The Israeli government will be judged by their actions not by anyone's "simplistic" conclusions,. Your language "simplistic, ticktoc sheep, dimwits" is trying to discredit people but you are failing to acknowledge the countries and organsiations that view the conflict in the same way as many of the posters on here.’

If you want to accuse a poster of something, try to actually remember what they said! I have never mentioned TikTok or accused anyone of being a dimwit. I prefer civilised discussion. (Please feel welcome to check. I don’t namechange and all my posts are searchable.

Israeli offensive on Rafah would break international law, UK minister says

Andrew Mitchell says military action on city will not eradicate Hamas and priority is to secure a permanent ceasefire

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/07/israeli-offensive-on-rafah-would-break-international-law-uk-minister-says

It really isn’t. Lets wait for the ICJ ruling on this, no idea how you can be so sure on this. You must be party to all the legal documents and evidence that has been presented to the ICC?

Israel has committed many wrongs but ultimately, they are a part of the international community and rely on them, as well as being a democratic nation (although it isn’t a perfect democracy).
It is irrelevant what community they are part of no idea what it has to do with anything, they definitely do not behave the same way as the countries they claim to align themselves to.

It isn’t genocide according to most people’s understanding of the word. Israel is in no way trying to eliminate the Palestinian identity or people
Most peoples understanding of the word is wrong then, the legal definition of genocide is broader than "eliminate the Palestinian identity or people"

Israel is neither the UK fighting the Nazis (the favoured pro Israel analogy) but nor is Hamas the ANC and Israel white apartheid South Africa (the favoured pro Palestinian analogy that I have heard). Believing either of those just leads to simplistic conclusions and totally misunderstands the plight on both sides of the conflict.
Where has anyone said they are? The Israeli government will be judged by their actions not by anyone's "simplistic" conclusions,. Your language "simplistic, ticktoc sheep, dimwits" is trying to discredit people but you are failing to acknowledge the countries and organsiations that view the conflict in the same way as many of the posters on here.

Just trying to be helpful. Quite a few people don't know it and then wonder why people miss their posts, and I've no idea how long you've been using the site. There's really no need to react like that.

Wow thanks. I've been here long enough to know that many posters don't like to be @'d and if it's a thread that they've recently posted on it will show up very obviously regardless in 'I'm On'.

But what do I know 🤦🏻‍♀️

@NecessaryNC24 if you want someone to be notified of your post, you need to put an @ in front of their username. If you type @, you should get a drop-down menu of posters and can select the person you want to notify from there.

Don't mean to be insensitive here Auvergne63 but was she one of the ones who were taken hostage and endured m/ still are ensuring ? all kinds of mental and physical torture, because their perspective may well be different , not to mention horrifically reinacting their past trauma.

I mean you should probably just read up a bit about the laws of armed conflict. Maybe that's pointless in your case because you believe IDF propaganda so you probably don't realise the atrocities that have actually been committed.

Of course they are. A simple question if I may, do you also think that the Holocaust survivors ( my great aunt was one) who march alongside the pro Palestinians are also being duped by Hamas or do they recognise it's a genocide because they know what one is?

Israel says it is reopening Kerem Shalom aid crossing into Gaza

Israel was reopening the Kerem Shalom crossing on its border with the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, reports the Reuters news agency citing a statement from the Israeli agency in charge of it said.

According to the statement, aid trucks routed through from Egypt were already undergoing security inspections there.

Israel had closed Kerem Shalom crossing on Sunday after a Hamas shelling attack nearby killed four soldiers.

@ConnieCounter ,

It really isn’t.

I know Jews who believe because it is Israel it can’t be bad. I am not one of them.

Israel has committed many wrongs but ultimately, they are a part of the international community and rely on them, as well as being a democratic nation (although it isn’t a perfect democracy).

The U.S is currently modifying Israel’s behaviour and I think that Netanyahu will be elected out at the first opportunity.

The opposite perspective is to look at war damage and deaths and think because it is Israel, it must be a genocide, where you don’t judge any other nations by the same standards.

Israel is neither the UK fighting the Nazis (the favoured pro Israel analogy) but nor is Hamas the ANC and Israel white apartheid South Africa (the favoured pro Palestinian analogy that I have heard). Believing either of those just leads to simplistic conclusions and totally misunderstands the plight on both sides of the conflict.

No one is happy, as there is no way to get aid in now.
It is a serious danger to the border integrity of Egypt indeed, but not sure what they can say that it has not been already said.

Apparently that poster thinks Israel believe Palestinians can survive on fresh air, this declaration and the fact that they followed through and tried to starve everybody and close all of their healthcare doesn't show in anyway mean they are trying to kill them all. Who knows what that poster thinks happens when there is no food or healthcare.

“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,”

I don't think we're the dim-witted ones here.

@Newbutoldfather the logic there is basically that it can't really be genocide because Israel did it and you like them whereas what Hamas did must be genocide because it was Hamas and they did it to Israelis. You need to have a read of those conventions I suggested you look at yesterday

It was part of an agreement as well hence my surprise that Egypt is happy to loose the control over it and not say anything about it.

"Israel is in no way trying to eliminate the Palestinian identity or people."

I'm confused. Then can you explain the disgustingly high civilian casualty rate? The hampering of aid efforts, including the deliberate slaughter of aid workers trying to help the Palestinian people?

I have not spotted this one reported in main media UK yet.
Surely no one can hand the control of a border to a private company? This is a inter- state border. And the only one that was outside Israel direct control.