Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

So Gaza will be a never-ending conflict zone.

they were terrorists is the excuse I was thinking of

Another tragic accident I'm sure 🙄

Sounds like they were aid workers
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-its-treating-palestinians-wounded-by-gunfire-at-kerem-shalom-crossing/#:~:text=The%20military%20says%20it%20received,the%20area%2C%20the%20military%20says.

According to a post from @Efacsen above no aid went through

That’s the problem when you’re trying to kill and ideology. You’ll never end it unless you end with all Palestinians

I have seen online that Palestinian workers were shot at near the kerem shalom crossing. Are these aid workers?
Has any aid even gone through

It is both depressing and maddening that IDF keeps moving the goal posts. This announcement is saying Rafah isn’t the last bit of Israel’s assault on Gaza. They are going to just keeping going back and forth, up and down in their tanks while bombing here, there and everywhere as refugees flee before them.

There seems to be no end in sight.

"We will deal with Rafah in the way which is right for us. I want to tell the public, so that they do not delude themselves: Even after we deal with Rafah, there will be terror. Hamas will move northwards and try to reconstitute itself, even in the next few days. In every place Hamas returns to, including in northern and central Gaza, we will return to operating."
-Daniel Hagari this morning. IDF spokesperson
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/389614

“It shouldn’t need saying that it is absolutely vital for Israel to eliminate Hamas’s capability to continue translating its twisted ideology into physical violence. That means their physical destruction in Rafah. Israel must push on with its plans and not buckle to international pressure, no matter how great. Failure to do so would amount to nothing less than strategic defeat.”

Clear case of someone with a teeny tiny bit of knowledge thinking they are actually intellligent,

Hagari has just admitted the obvious that Hamas isn’t just in Rafah. IDF never fully defeated them in north or central Gaza as fighting has been and is still going on up there. Hagari has now said that after Rafah, they are going back to central and north Gaza to ‘keep fighting Hamas.’

There is no strategic victory to be had in Rafah. Only more death and destruction of innocents.

The writer of that article is well qualified to give his opinion.
Exactly an opinion which people can disagree with.

The Telegraph is so wrong.
Hamas accepted a ceasefire offer written by Israel and when they did so, they suggested a few amendments. That’s the reality reported in both Israeli and Qatari news outlets. It is only US and U.K. news that has been misreporting it as a “Hamas offer”

I don't read that Tory rag. Fair play to you if you're a fan of the writers.

Kerem Shalom crossing has been 'open' for 7 hours now

But still no aid has passed into Gaza as yet UNWRA

It's like dealing with an oppositional child

Hyperbolic nonsense. The writer of that article is well qualified to give his opinion. Much more than you.

Look up the writer of that article and say you know better than him.

This place is weird sometimes.
That poor reporter, what has she ever done to upset @LargeAmericano ?

Look up the writer of that article and say you know better than him.

Hyperbolic nonsense. The writer of that article is well qualified to give his opinion. Much more than you.

@Parkingt111 IDK what to say - there's also a team of Kuwaiti doctors being forcibly evacuated from Rafah ?don't know which hospital they are from

What has this to do with 'arms smuggling' thro' the Rafah crossing??

@Efacsen the indonesian field hospital in Rafah have started discharging any patients who can walk in fear that they will be asked to evacuate next
They have said the consequences will be devastating

I'd expect nothing less from the Torygraph.

Excuses for murder. That's all that article is. Excuse Excuse Excuse.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/07/israel-must-destroy-hamas-in-rafah-defying-weak-west/

Hamas’s agreement on Monday to a ceasefire deal that was never on the table was yet another ruse to buy time and build international pressure to halt a major IDF operation in Rafah. It was a sign of the terrorists’ desperation to prevent the destruction of their final stronghold. An IDF move into Rafah has been delayed far too long. It is the result of months of fruitless negotiations over release of hostages that never showed any sign of materialising. Yet Israel had little option than to play along while even the smallest glimmer of hope existed.
The delay was also brought about by unbearable pressure from the US and other Israeli allies, with Biden repeatedly forbidding an attack on Rafah without what he called a “credible and executable plan” to protect or evacuate the civilian population there. Similar demands were recently parroted by Lord Cameron during a visit to Jerusalem. No plan the IDF drew up ever met Biden’s stipulations, but then no plan could have done so if his real intention was to block the final destruction of Hamas amid growing concerns about adverse effects on his own electoral prospects. Of course one credible plan would have been to allow civilians to take temporary refuge through the Egyptian border into Sinai. Biden could have brought that about by pushing Cairo to agree but neither he nor any other international leader ever even raised a finger to do so. That unforgivable failure, which played right into Hamas’s hands, has contributed to many of the civilian deaths during this war and will likely lead to many more.
Now the IDF has been making preliminary moves against Rafah on the ground and from the air. Quite rightly, Jerusalem has not signalled its immediate intentions. Those may be to shape the battlefield for future large-scale operations, including spurring the civilian population to evacuate Rafah to designated humanitarian zones and adding pressure on Hamas to free the hostages. Nor is it impossible that an apparently inevitable push into Rafah might impel elements of the Hamas leadership to make good their escape from Gaza while they still can. After all, they have witnessed the collapse of every one of their formed fighting units as the IDF advanced through the rest of Gaza. Whether this turns out to be a limited operation or something more sustained, Israel is going to have to deal with Hamas by an offensive in Rafah if it is to achieve its goal of dismantling the terrorist threat to its citizens. One thing we can be sure of is that the US and other Western countries will continue to browbeat Israel not to do so and instead to end the war.
These countries will be pushed further into acting against Israel by two separate phenomena. First, Iran will try to protect its proxies in Gaza by again stepping up aggression from its militant networks in the region. That in turn will raise renewed trepidation in our capitals about escalation and wider conflict. Second, expect demonstrations on university campuses and in the streets to intensify even further. The impact of Gaza-related agitation on some recent local elections in Britain will be fresh in the minds of our politicians. Rishi Sunak says he’s “deeply concerned” about the prospects of a military incursion into Rafah and according to Keir Starmer it “must not go ahead”.
Biden’s trepidation over widespread protests in an election year is only too clear. As the IDF moved against Rafah yesterday, the Biden administration continued its public opposition to Israel’s very objectives in Gaza, with White House spokesman John Kirby saying: “You’re not going to eliminate an ideology through military operations”. This tired mantra is a false argument against pretty much any military solution to any aggressor. Why did the US fight against Isis, which represents the same ideology as Hamas? Why is Ukraine bothering to resist the military manifestation of Putin’s ideology?
It shouldn’t need saying that it is absolutely vital for Israel to eliminate Hamas’s capability to continue translating its twisted ideology into physical violence. That means their physical destruction in Rafah. Israel must push on with its plans and not buckle to international pressure, no matter how great. Failure to do so would amount to nothing less than strategic defeat.

I genuinely do not understand your question. Are you saying that the Holocaust survivors are enable to think clearly because of their past trauma?

If you want to accuse a poster of something, try to actually remember what they said! I have never mentioned TikTok or accused anyone of being a dimwit. I prefer civilised discussion. (Please feel welcome to check. I don’t namechange and all my posts are searchable.
Apologies I read the thread without my glasses and thought it was the same poster, the usernames are slightly similar

Yes, let’s wait, you too are assuming the conclusion.
I am not assuming conclusions I understand the ruling that there is a case for Israel to answer and this could take years but there is concern that genocide is plausible. Whereas you are dismissing it in its entirety

Yes, I know the definition has been widened, which IMO devalues the term.
Which is your opinion but the current legal definition will rule whether it is genocide or not, not your opinion

It is more relevant than you realise. Countries which trade with other civilised countries and share education etc etc have a lot to lose by going against the ethics of this countries. It was ultimately this lack of acceptance that ended Apartheid (amongst other things).
I am not sure what your point is here? Countries trading with Israel is not a get out of jail card if you are found guilty of war crimes or genocide. I would also like to know what your definition of a civilised and uncivilised country is?

Interesting article, showing how most western countries are horrified by what Israel is doing. Hopefully they'll take action in the next few days. The US seems to be preventing this at the moment with their request that nobody says anything that might upset the sensitive Israelis. While they invade a city where 1.7million people are sheltering 🙄