Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

@MushMonster absolutely nothing going in via Rafah crossing

It's not so clear what's happening at Kerem Shalom which has been open and closed - Hamas have attacked the nearby IDF base x2, aid workers have been injured and IDF is blaming UN for not collecting aid on the gazan side - but it's in the evacuation zone

So effectively none via Kerem Shalom either

UK, US and Jordan made some air-drops into northern gaza yesterday

US vessel carrying food aid left Cyprus yesterday heading for the US pier but dogged by bad weather and un-answered questions about how aid will be distributed once landed

Lack of fuel a big issue but also water is running out

It's completely dire - a deliberate and completely avoidable war crime

Well they are experts in their field and no doubt basing their position on a lot more than crystal balls.

Bar the "safe zone" Israel has set up at Khan Younis I have not seen any other information about humanitarian supplies and food.

Have they allowed the fuel suppplies that were needed for the hospitals and aid distribution to go in through the Rafah or Kerem Shalom crossings?
And any aid trucks?

More than 100,000 flee Rafah as Israel steps up strikes, says UN

Deep concern displaced people will return to rubble of former homes without ‘basic essentials necessary for life’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/09/more-than-100000-flee-rafah-israel-steps-up-strikes-says-un

Actually their security spokesman expressed concern that it could actually strengthen Hamas”John F. Kirby, a White House national security spokesman, said President Biden is concerned that an Israeli assault on Rafah would strengthen Hamas.”

Well a White House spokesman has come out and said the same thing.
This ground invasion is not self defence and it’s not going to get rid of Hamas

So the CIA have a crystal ball.

I had not noticed, but I very much like this. At least recognise that it exists.

That's well explained @Newbutoldfather thank you

Even the CIA has leaked to the New York Times that this ground offensive won’t get rid of Hamas.

@stormy4319trevor ,

’The bombs used seem, as you say, to have been unnecessarily destructive and not efficient. A while ago I was reading about the US fighting the Viet Cong, who used tunnels. It seems like, in the end, the US had to train for tunnel warfare and go in, because no other approach worked. I have sometimes wondered if a very cautious, targeted ground operation might have been less awful and more effective from the start.’

I tend to agree with this.

General Petraeus wrote a very good article (I might have already linked up above) about how he changed the Iraq war by understanding that you have to ‘separate’ the civilians from the terrorists by putting them (the civilians) in safe gated communities and supplying their needs, so the terrorists can’t continually intermingle with the community.

And you have to go into the tunnels (as you said).

But he also said that it takes manpower, time and money.

Israel seem to have tried to do this on the cheap without risking (many) of their own soldiers and by using overly high powered explosives which still probably did nothing to the deep concrete-reinforced tunnels but killed a lot of civilians and probably helped another generation of terrorists come into existence.

Unless they rapidly change course this will be the ultimate in pyrrhic victories.

Absolutely, it's classic divide and rule.

The PA has to behave otherwise it loses the small concessions that it has, remember the fuss when Smotrich? stopped the PA from receiving taxes collected from Palestinians to pay civil servants.

Again it's also due to Western interference and actions taken by George W. Bushes government after Hamas unexpectedly won the election in 2006. It's a long read but shows how America helped to cement the division:

https://archive.vanityfair.com/article/2008/4/the-gaza-bombshell

True, and the Palestinian Authority had to disown Hamas. The moderates had to cut off the extremist terrorists and that meant cutting Gaza and Gazans off in a lot of ways.

I think it would have as that is how ISIS were defeated during the Battle for Mosul with a fraction of the civilian casualties thus far in Gaza.

Iraqi or coalition forces were responsible for at least 3,200 civilian deaths from airstrikes, artillery fire or mortar rounds between October 2016 and the fall of the Islamic State group in July 2017, according to an Associated Press investigation that cross-referenced independent databases from non-governmental organizations.

Of the nearly 10,000 deaths, around a third of the casualties died in bombardments by the U.S.-led coalition or Iraqi forces, the AP analysis found.

Another third of the dead civilians were killed by ISIS in the group’s final frenzy of violence.

And it could not be determined which side was responsible for the deaths of the remainder, who were cowering in neighbourhoods battered by coalition airstrikes, ISIS explosives and mortar rounds from all sides.

I think Piers Morgan has been reading this thread.

I know that in terms of the rival political factions within Palestine they have been communicating and coordinating a plan for when there is a ceasefire, as facilitated and advised by certain BRICS countries. They realised that part of why there has never been a solution was due to the infighting and discord which just benefited the occupation.

@Newbutoldfather The bombs used seem, as you say, to have been unnecessarily destructive and not efficient. A while ago I was reading about the US fighting the Viet Cong, who used tunnels. It seems like, in the end, the US had to train for tunnel warfare and go in, because no other approach worked. I have sometimes wondered if a very cautious, targeted ground operation might have been less awful and more effective from the start.

Interesting! I did not notice that but I’m going back through a few tabbed news reports I see that shift too.

@SummerFeverVenice a few weeks ago it became noticeable that Governments, the US in particular, stopped using the word Palestine and instead referred to the Palestinian people.
I guess it is a gently subversive way to bring the word Palestine back into use.

Has anyone else noticed a shift in the live reporting from Gaza and West Bank?

The reporters started out saying their name, Al Jazeera, town (Rafah, Khan Younis, etc), Gaza Strip or town name, West Bank but now it is name, Al Jazeera, town, and then Palestine. Ie “Rafah, Palestine”

It started to shift around three weeks ago, and now they are all saying “Palestine”

It is like the war as reunified Gazan and West Bank Palestinians.

Although London had a population of 8.9million in 1940 compared to Gaza’s 2.3million, so the devastation of 40,000 dead and over a million homes gone is proportionally 4x greater. Too Londoners were not trapped, they could and did evacuate children and many adults left too.

I think of the impact of the Blitz on our national psyche even today- 84yrs later and wonder about the impact of this war on Gaza on the psyche of Gazans and Palestinians.

The casualty numbers and destruction of homes are similar too
Between Sept. 1940 and May 1941, the city of London was attacked by Germany in 71 different air raids, 57 of those being on consecutive nights.

• Overall, German bombers dropped 711 tons of high explosive
• 2,393 incendiaries were also dropped on London
• Black Saturday alone left 430 dead and 1,600 injured
• More than one million houses were destroyed or damaged
• More than 40,000 civilians were killed
• Dozens of parachute bombs destroyed London streets

Thank you, @Newbutoldfather .

Also, re the large bombs, the wartime blitz on London involved 700 tons of high explosives. It looks like Israel has dropped about the same amount on Gaza and most of Hamas leadership are still alive…