Israeli Hostage - I hope she can deal with her mental wounds

Given her overall experience, of all possible examples it's a strange example to pick for rape minimising. I suspect it's more to do with his pro-Palestine/anti-Israeli position thus will leap on an opportunity to discredit an Israeli's account of the war.

Thank you. I understand what you are saying and I will never deny the suffering of any human being, man or woman. I just feel that the threat of rape and the act of being raped are two different things.
I don't know why she used the term in this context and I won't speculate why either. I don't think we will ever know and she is entitled to refuse to explain why. I hope she finds peace.

Exactly this, thank you.

What?

I have said exactly that on other threads. This thread is about this specific interview.

I think the point was that Moran wasn't raped, so it's jarring to find sexual violence as part of her narrative. Different to cases when it did occur.

Equally @AdamRyan has no said for one second that Israeli women have indeed been subject to sexual assault and rapes during the 7th October attacks and as hostages.

But has sought to minimise this particular woman's account of what happened.

No. I find what limesoda said disgusting.
Rape has a specific meaning. Rape victims have a hard time getting taken seriously. I don't think applying the term "rape" to a wide range of non contact aggression from men to women is helpful.

I do have an agenda to defend this woman’s account against attempts to discredit and distort it @Limesodaagain

Presumably if this were actually true you'd take issue with the way 'Moran's account' is actually written up by a BBC journalist complete with an edited interview which excludes the line of questioning she was subjected to.

This was actually the original point being made by adamryan: how did she end up saying something nonsensical and out of context? was pressure put on her to say it? They were reasonable questions and we don't know the answers to them precisely because there isn't the transparency to know if her account was distorted. We do know that Israel has been pushing this element of its war narrative hard, so no wonder people read this article and question whether this is an extension of their previous PR campaign to frame the israel vs palestine conflict as a womens rights vs rapists conflict.

Because I don't think many women would choose to describe a man staring at them aggressively as "a rape".
They might if they were in a hostage situation and the man staring at them had the power of life and death over them - stop making excuses.

I think Moran gave her account as an honest attempt to describe the terror and helplessness and humiliation she felt in captivity. She used the word because conveyed the trauma of her experience. I don’t believe she meant to minimise the trauma of anybody who has suffered rape. I think she was in terror of rape for every day of her 54 days of captivity and has been scarred by that memory

this

adam has not for one second said that Israeli women have not been raped or sexually assaulted or even had sexual threats made against them

@AdamRyan

OK - would you like to deny or minimise this woman account of rape?

nypost.com/2024/03/27/opinion/ex-hostage-bravely-confirms-hamas-rapes-and-shames-deniers-like-rep-jamaal-bowman/amp/

Or would you like to deny or minimise the UN report finding reasonable grounds that Hamas committed sexual attacks.

www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/3/4/reasonable-grounds-to-believe-hamas-committed-sexual-violence-un

I have deliberately used an Al Jazeera link to make it easier for you to believe.

I do have an agenda to defend this woman’s account against attempts to discredit and distort it

As a person who's worked in serious sexual assault cases (legal) for 20+ years, attended endless conferences, countless interviews, I can honestly say it's always best to listen to the victim. We can never understand, but we can listen/

As already well documented, both sides will continue to use (and excuse) rape and sexual assault. They both have a long history of it. I'd recommend reading:
Our Bodies, Their Battlefield by Christina Lambb

There will continue to be minimizing of the experiences of victims.

I don’t think you are interested in “truth and accuracy “ as much as undermining the account of a hostage’s ordeal.
@Limesodaagain

I wrote my comment about truth and accuracy in response to comments from various PPs that suggest we shouldn't be allowed to comment on her words, that we are asking a rape victim to reframe their narrative, that because she has been a victim of crime it is somehow wrong to understand the placing of newspaper articles in the context of Israel's war effort, and that we must keep our thoughts to ourselves in case we offend jews or Israelis.

That is not a view I share. I do, in fact, value truth, accuracy, critical thinking and similar values. If my posts are horrific to you then might I suggest it is you with an agenda here.

@AdamRyan is not making valid points- he is trying to discredit the account of a hostage victim by critiquing her words and misrepresenting her account as untrustworthy

What's your agenda, @Blackcats7 ?

@AdamRyan is making valid points that are well articulated.

It’s all about the politics for @AdamRyan so don’t expect to feel any empathy from his/her posts.

threat was real and ever present for 54 days was a trauma akin to actually being raped. - I find this disgusting and minimising to rape victims. There is no way to compare being held hostage with being raped. They are both awful crimes and very different to each other.

You find the words of woman who was held hostage for months and who was sexually assaulted and who is trying to explain her trauma "disgusting"?

@AdamRyan
”It's like every time an Israeli woman is interviewed she has to talk about sexual violence, as if that's the key component of violence against her.”

Your empathy and compassion really shines through here.

Im very sorry that this article was upsetting for you and I’m sorry that that is what you have both taken away from the article of this woman’s suffering.
I think Moran gave her account as an honest attempt to describe the terror and helplessness and humiliation she felt in captivity. She used the word because conveyed the trauma of her experience. I don’t believe she meant to minimise the trauma of anybody who has suffered rape. I think she was in terror of rape for every day of her 54 days of captivity and has been scarred by that memory .

@AdamRyan thank you so much your attempt to minimise and derail the thread about this woman’s appalling experience. You clearly have an agenda to push here. I will file it under bollocks.

I’m very sorry about your experiences.
I can imagine that reading these accounts might be triggering for you.

I don’t think Moran’s intention is to minimise anyone else’s suffering so I don’t think we should be doing that to her.
I think she suffered enormously and being looked at threateningly for 54 days by people who have the power to rape you or kill you if they choose must be very traumatic .
I agree we shouldn’t use the word “rape” to describe experiences that aren’t rape but I think her experience was so extreme she struggled to find a word to express the fear and vulnerability she felt .