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How have we come to a state where the police confront someone for being overtly Jewish?

645 replies

mids2019 · 20/04/2024 18:39

Just how?

I think at best this inept policing at worst vile anti semitism.

I suppose it is now in the open that central London has become effectively a no go area for Jews given the potential for abuse from hate marchers.

Can't we just stop these marches so Jews can go about their business?

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LessonsinChemistryandLove · 24/04/2024 09:27

And it’s not at only anti Israel protests, I’m not sure why you think that. This literally happens at all protests all the time. Some climate change protesters are gruesome, others are calmer etc.

I’m not denying that some Jewish people may feel intimidated by these marches (I remember the days of the national front well!) and any violence should not be tolerated by the police. But it’s unfair to say that all of these marches are just to stoke up anti Jew hatred. Given the thousands of people that attend, I think it would be more obvious if that were true.

ColonelDax · 24/04/2024 09:13

LessonsinChemistryandLove · 24/04/2024 09:13

As I said, I think it depends on how strongly you feel about cause overall. There are lots of times in life when you will be in a group of people and not necessarily agree with every point but overall, you agree enough to stay in that camp. Brexit is a great example of that, as the saying goes, “not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist but all the racists voted for Brexit”. Unfortunately, life is not always black and white.

'Not necessarily agree'

Wow.... 😬

ColonelDax · 24/04/2024 09:13

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/04/2024 09:09

I imagine if an Asian guy turned up to a Tommy Robinson march carrying a sign that says 'down with Islam' he would be welcomed too.

This video is a ridiculous self own from these people. 🤣

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/04/2024 09:13

ColonelDax · 24/04/2024 09:11

'A lot'

I didn't think my eyes could roll any further back in my head.

🙄

Not interested in a difference of opinion then I see, hope you have a blessed day

LessonsinChemistryandLove · 24/04/2024 09:13

ColonelDax · 24/04/2024 09:01

That is an unbelievable double standard.

If you went to what you thought was a sensible protest about say, government policy or something and found yourself next to actual, Roman salute flashing Nazis, you'd get out of there as quickly as you could without a second thought.

Why is it only anti Israel protests that you are happy to 'rub along' with seriously unpleasant people around?

As I said, I think it depends on how strongly you feel about cause overall. There are lots of times in life when you will be in a group of people and not necessarily agree with every point but overall, you agree enough to stay in that camp. Brexit is a great example of that, as the saying goes, “not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist but all the racists voted for Brexit”. Unfortunately, life is not always black and white.

ColonelDax · 24/04/2024 09:11

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/04/2024 09:08

Are you ignoring the fact that a lot of Jewish people are attending these marches in support of Palestine? Or doesn't that fit with the narrative that's being pushed?

'A lot'

I didn't think my eyes could roll any further back in my head.

🙄

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/04/2024 09:09

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/s/41MbocscSf

Here some of them speak out

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/04/2024 09:08

Are you ignoring the fact that a lot of Jewish people are attending these marches in support of Palestine? Or doesn't that fit with the narrative that's being pushed?

ColonelDax · 24/04/2024 09:05

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/04/2024 09:04

They're not anti Israel protests they're anti Palestinian genocide marches

Sure Jan.

I'm sure that's how the majority attending feel. 🙄

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/04/2024 09:04

ColonelDax · 24/04/2024 09:01

That is an unbelievable double standard.

If you went to what you thought was a sensible protest about say, government policy or something and found yourself next to actual, Roman salute flashing Nazis, you'd get out of there as quickly as you could without a second thought.

Why is it only anti Israel protests that you are happy to 'rub along' with seriously unpleasant people around?

They're not anti Israel protests they're anti Palestinian genocide marches

ColonelDax · 24/04/2024 09:03

PeasfullPerson · 24/04/2024 08:43

This is all so ridiculous.

Of course there will be some people who are antisemitic at the march, and those people should be dealt with.

Perhaps there wouldn’t be so much division if people like Cruella Braverman and Eylon Levy hadn’t tried to delegitimise the marches by painting everyone there as being hateful, antisemitic, terrorist supporters, or scarf wearing idiots.

They were entirely willing to demonise a whole group of people upset about the killing of innocent men, women and children to further their political ideas.

I think the public are fed up with these manipulative attempts. I know I am.

And, it does nothing to help tackle antisemitism, it simply pushes people further apart!

'Some people'

I'm sure it's barely anyone, that's why simply walking against the flow of the protest while looking Jewish is the potential spark to a tinderbox that the Police have no choice but to intervene in. 🙄

ColonelDax · 24/04/2024 09:01

LessonsinChemistryandLove · 24/04/2024 08:28

Yes perhaps but given this type of thing isn’t unusual, I suspect most want to focus on there cause and feel that the issue there marching against is that important. I don’t know what I would personally do tbh but I can understand why those who aren’t anti-Semitic would still attend.

That is an unbelievable double standard.

If you went to what you thought was a sensible protest about say, government policy or something and found yourself next to actual, Roman salute flashing Nazis, you'd get out of there as quickly as you could without a second thought.

Why is it only anti Israel protests that you are happy to 'rub along' with seriously unpleasant people around?

PeasfullPerson · 24/04/2024 08:43

This is all so ridiculous.

Of course there will be some people who are antisemitic at the march, and those people should be dealt with.

Perhaps there wouldn’t be so much division if people like Cruella Braverman and Eylon Levy hadn’t tried to delegitimise the marches by painting everyone there as being hateful, antisemitic, terrorist supporters, or scarf wearing idiots.

They were entirely willing to demonise a whole group of people upset about the killing of innocent men, women and children to further their political ideas.

I think the public are fed up with these manipulative attempts. I know I am.

And, it does nothing to help tackle antisemitism, it simply pushes people further apart!

LessonsinChemistryandLove · 24/04/2024 08:32

noblegiraffe · 23/04/2024 20:25

I think it is generally agreed that EDL marchers are racist bigots.

But there are people who have been arguing for months that there are no issues with antisemitism on these peace marches.

That's the difference.

If people had been arguing for months that weekly EDL marches aren't a problem for black people in London and then a black person showed up to test this, and was told by the police that it wasn't safe for them to cross the march, and the crowd started shouting scum at them, would people be saying it was the black person's fault?

Would they be blaming the black person for provoking the crowd in to making the point that the black person was trying to make?

But similar did happen during the BLM protests. Counter protests where held and prominent BLM, and on the other side, anti-black protesters, where turned away and some were arrested.

Im not saying GF was at fault but I don’t think the police were wrong to encourage him to leave. What else could they do? If he had stayed and it escalated, they would have been criticised for not protecting him.

valjane · 24/04/2024 08:29

I remember during climate change protests being stopped from crossing the road at a pedestrian crossing by police as there were protesters lying in the road and they didn't want to antagonise the situation. Rightly or wrongly the police have a duty to ensure situations don't escalate. There were violent St George's Day protests in London yesterday so I changed my route to avoid them.

The policeman may have used the wrong words but he was trying to do the right thing.

LessonsinChemistryandLove · 24/04/2024 08:28

ColonelDax · 24/04/2024 07:02

I'm sure you are right, but if I turned up at a 'peaceful protest' and then discovered that a sizable minority of those attending with me were anti semites who verbally attacked a Jewish man simply for being Jewish, I'd get out of there straight away and make sure I was nowhere near that kind of thing ever again. 🙄

Whether you like it or not, there is a significant number of 'blind eyes' being turned on these marches that you simply don't get for other causes.

Yes perhaps but given this type of thing isn’t unusual, I suspect most want to focus on there cause and feel that the issue there marching against is that important. I don’t know what I would personally do tbh but I can understand why those who aren’t anti-Semitic would still attend.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/04/2024 08:12

Whether you like it or not, there is a significant number of 'blind eyes' being turned on these marches that you simply don't get for other causes.

What do you suggest the protesters do, they can't vet everyone who is going to attend these perfectly valid marches against the genocide of the people of Gaza?

ColonelDax · 24/04/2024 07:05

noblegiraffe · 23/04/2024 20:25

I think it is generally agreed that EDL marchers are racist bigots.

But there are people who have been arguing for months that there are no issues with antisemitism on these peace marches.

That's the difference.

If people had been arguing for months that weekly EDL marches aren't a problem for black people in London and then a black person showed up to test this, and was told by the police that it wasn't safe for them to cross the march, and the crowd started shouting scum at them, would people be saying it was the black person's fault?

Would they be blaming the black person for provoking the crowd in to making the point that the black person was trying to make?

100% agree with this.

ColonelDax · 24/04/2024 07:02

LessonsinChemistryandLove · 23/04/2024 19:40

The marches are attended many many thousands of people. It would surprise me that a large minority are there for the wrong reasons, as with all marches unfortunately.

I'm sure you are right, but if I turned up at a 'peaceful protest' and then discovered that a sizable minority of those attending with me were anti semites who verbally attacked a Jewish man simply for being Jewish, I'd get out of there straight away and make sure I was nowhere near that kind of thing ever again. 🙄

Whether you like it or not, there is a significant number of 'blind eyes' being turned on these marches that you simply don't get for other causes.

ColonelDax · 24/04/2024 06:58

Having watched the longer clip, this guy absolutely turned up with the intent of provoking some kind of incident and then filming it.

BUT, and it's a big but, if all he had to do to provoke an incident was walk against the flow of the protest whilst being 'openly Jewish', that's a pretty strong indicator that the protests aren't as innocent as they claim to be.

Noicant · 24/04/2024 06:57

I’m starting to think there are bunch of people here who do think it’s probably ok to start being threatening towards someone in a Hijab or a turban if the context is “right”. I’m an ethnic minority and the excuses made for out and out racism are vile to me.

I don’t want anyone to experience it, ever, it’s fucking awful being visibly different enough that people think it’s ok to be abusive to you for it.

Noicant · 24/04/2024 06:54

noblegiraffe · 23/04/2024 19:54

I don’t believe that the police should be more lenient on people who may antagonise, just because there Jewish.

I think the problem here is that being visibly Jewish was the provocation.

With the Iranian guy, holding a sign saying "Hamas are terrorists" was the provocation.

What does that say about the protestors when these things are considered likely to provoke them?

Exactly, regardless of what he was doing there it’s the very fact that his existence there, looking like he does is perceived by the police as likely to cause a negative violent reaction.

I think posters are being purposefully obtuse about this.

Noicant · 24/04/2024 06:49

Weighnow · 23/04/2024 20:08

He was being deliberately provocative, at a pro Palestine rally. Maybe that's his right and should be, but he did was there to cause trouble.

If I were on an anti Iran march (not anti islam ofcourse) but then started yelling at some random women talking to a police officer because she was wearing a hijab who would be in the wrong?

Grandmasswagbag · 24/04/2024 06:43

noblegiraffe · 23/04/2024 18:24

As I understand it, this man is loudly anti these process and a supporter of these Israeli governments actions.

Pretty sure no one knew who he was. And he wasn't being loudly anything or visibly supporting anything.

Hardly comparable to Tommy Robinson who is a) more recognisable and b) very loud. Oh, and also a criminal who is banned from London protest marches.

I suspect the police knew exactly who he was.

Noicant · 24/04/2024 06:42

abovethefold · 22/04/2024 23:37

I’m Jewish and when I first read the story I was shocked and scared. But having delved more deeply I’ve come to the awful conclusion that he engineered the situation in order to make a point.

The police tried to help him at first but he barged past, whilst being filmed, and was clearly trying to antagonise people. The situation then escalated and he got the footage he wanted.

I hate to say this as I know how scared Jewish people feel in general and I know how this news story made me feel. But by generating this story this man has made me feel more unsafe than the marchers do. I feel sick to my stomach about it. It plays into the old awful trope of Jewish conspiracies and it makes out that anyone protesting the war in Gaza is protesting against Jews.

It doesn’t matter what someone does, you literally cannot engineer a situation where I would start shouting abuse at anyone on the basis of what religion or race I think they are.

It would not happen because I don’t harbour secret ill intent towards people of whatever faith.

I think he demonstrated his point pretty clearly

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