How have we come to a state where the police confront someone for being overtly Jewish?

I'd like to see a two-state solution but I'm not sure how that could happen or even if it's possible. Funnily enough I don't have the magical answer for peace. Although unlike the poster I was responding to at least I want peace.

Netanyahu shouldn't have gone as far as he has, but everything he does seems to be for his own personal and political gain. In 1947 the Jewish people needed their own state and they got it.

Is the interrogation over? If you want more detailed answers I recommend you speak to a diplomat or historian or someone who knows what they're talking about. Doubt you'll find that on mumsnet.

You haven't really answered anything.

Yes yes I know, you don't answer to Zionists because we're worse than Hitler etc.

But I’m willing to talk to anyone! And I don’t believe the H thing. So talk to me!

What do you want to happen? How do you think Netanyahu should have acted? and how do you think Israelis and Palestinians can both achieve equal peace and dignity?
And what do you think should have happened in 1947?

Can I remind posters, when they mention the holocaust, there were NOT six million people killed in the camps. There were 12 million people killed in the camps. Six million were Jewish, six million were from a list of other groups including gypsies, gays, non whites and others. These people never ever get counted. In all the multiple threads on the Gaza war, the holocaust and its 'six million' murdered, have been mentioned multiple times. Only one other time have I seen the other six million mentioned, and that was by me as well. I have met loads of fully grown adults in my time who had no idea these other people were also targeted because they are almost never mentioned. This isn't to diminish what happened to Jewish people, they made up a whole 50% of the victims. Please, if you mention the holocaust in future, please also mention the other six million victims though because so many people have absolutely no idea they even existed.

You haven't really answered anything.

Yes yes I know, you don't answer to Zionists because we're worse than Hitler etc.

It's unfortunate that you can't accept my answer because you don't like it, but how about we agree to disagree.
You seem to ask a lot of questions without responding to any that are put to you.

What is the difference between those 2? Because that's the issue.

Right, so when you were confidently telling me that she had explained herself perfectly well and I shouldn’t be asking questions, you also didn’t know what she meant. Thanks for that intervention.

I don’t think a Jewish state and a Jewish ethno-state are the same thing. Some seem to be conflating the two.

@Senzadubbidobbi I am pleased that you’ve picked up on this. Some posters have been doing this for months, taking comments out of context and framing them in a way which fits their narrative. They then use it as evidence to backup their point. It’s dishonest, unkind, divisive and ineffective.

How nice of you to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who comes on here in the middle of the night with a fresh username to rant about how they don't have to answer to Zionists who BTW are worse than Hitler, how Israel shouldn't have peace and Jews stole people's homes. I'm sure you'd extend that courtesy to anyone saying similar things about Palestinians.

@Dulra For me it's psychological and means having a Jewish homeland to 'flee' to if become so intolerable and unsafe here. We're an absolutely tiny group, we don't have safety in numbers. That's it really and I think, put simply, it's based on a guttural fear - we're decent people and being recast into monsters just because we believe in this. Jews are generally horrified by the ultra-right and version of modern political Zionism that turfs folks out their own homes and often violently so.

I didn’t mean it that way and you know it. I meant I don’t agree with her if that is what she means.

I am asking you to engage with the middle ground, the people who do go on the marches but who are clearly not anti-semitic. Like me.

Right, so when you were confidently telling me that she had explained herself perfectly well and I shouldn’t be asking questions, you also didn’t know what she meant. Thanks for that intervention.

I don’t think a Jewish state and a Jewish ethno-state are the same thing. Some seem to be conflating the two.

@Senzadubbidobbi The issue I have here is that there is no way to show support for Gaza without being labelled as anti-Semitic. There’s no way to criticise Zionism and its current actions without being told that we want to wipe Israel off the map.

Yet I can’t even do that without being labelled as anti-semitic. It really is so depressing.

So when the same poster refers to the Zionist movement - of which a majority of British Jews supports and is therefore part of - as being worse than Hitler "because at least he was honest and transparent", would you not agree that's antisemitic?

Jews have been calling elements of the protests antisemitic, specific behaviours - e.g. protestors chanting support for the Houthis. They're not calling you antisemitic for just protesting so stop putting words in our mouths. I'm not saying none have, but the majority simply do not. I'm begging you to please stop doing this. You say it's depressing you can't protest without being called antisemitic (which you're not). I can't even begin to tell you how depressing and scary it is being Jewish facing all this hostility and hate.

The fact is, many of these same British Jews who are supportive of Zionism are appalled by and despise the Israeli government and want the war to end (many, like me, didn't even want it to start!). The more hatred we face, the more we believe in the need for Israel and a Jewish state, and therefore Zionism, so really you can't have it both ways.

@Senzadubbidobbi The issue I have here is that there is no way to show support for Gaza without being labelled as anti-Semitic. There’s no way to criticise Zionism and its current actions without being told that we want to wipe Israel off the map.

Yet I can’t even do that without being labelled as anti-semitic. It really is so depressing.

So when the same poster refers to the Zionist movement - of which a majority of British Jews supports and is therefore part of - as being worse than Hitler "because at least he was honest and transparent", would you not agree that's antisemitic?

Jews have been calling elements of the protests antisemitic, specific behaviours - e.g. protestors chanting support for the Houthis. They're not calling you antisemitic for just protesting so stop putting words in our mouths. I'm not saying none have, but the majority simply do not. I'm begging you to please stop doing this. You say it's depressing you can't protest without being called antisemitic (which you're not). I can't even begin to tell you how depressing and scary it is being Jewish facing all this hostility and hate.

The fact is, many of these same British Jews who are supportive of Zionism are appalled by and despise the Israeli government and want the war to end (many, like me, didn't even want it to start!). The more hatred we face, the more we believe in the need for Israel and a Jewish state, and therefore Zionism, so really you can't have it both ways.

I don’t know but it does seem to imply that she would rather a multi-faith state.

Let’s wait for her to come back shall we?

In the meantime why don’t you tell us what you think? So we can find some common ground. I get the feeling that you equate the belief in an ethno-state for Jews as a baseline for Jewish security? Is that right?

How nice of you to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who comes on here in the middle of the night with a fresh username to rant about how they don't have to answer to Zionists who BTW are worse than Hitler, how Israel shouldn't have peace and Jews stole people's homes. I'm sure you'd extend that courtesy to anyone saying similar things about Palestinians.

This is the kind of gotcha-ism that another poster is talking about! The poster you’re talking about has made it clear that she believes Jews, Muslims and Christians can live peacefully outside of an ethno-state, yet you hone in on one sentence, take it out of context (she was talking of the evolution in her thought process) and ignore everything or everyone else.

If she is anti-semitic rather than anti-Zionist then I apologise on her behalf, but I am not and lots of other protesters aren’t. So engage with us!

The police aren't doing their jobs a person isn't safe from an aggressive mob. It isn't really that hard.

The problem I feel with the marches is who is is the protest aimed at? Who is listening? Hamas? The IDF? In reality this is a foreign war and I can go some extent understand protest if the UK was directly involved as we have a democratic stake in the actions of this state. If the media start to lose interest then even the public at large will not see the protests.

The only side result of the marches is that those anti Semitic elements in the marches (I agree there may be those who genuinely want peace) get what they want or all they can achieve, a country more uncomfortable for Jews. There won't be a bullet less tired in this war because of these marches but there will be those in the Jewsih community that are afraid seeing such visceral hate against the Israeli state and by extension it's people and religion. Yes there is hate as being openly Jewish does seem to be a provocation and we need to hang out heads in shame because of this.

We have seen wide spread arrests in the US where protest gets out of hand and we do not want to see this here.

Do you think she means a Jewish state or not?