This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 3)

For example, this land.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/10/23/israel-hamas-war-settlers-speed-up-eviction-of-palestinian-bedouins-in-west-bank-hills-amid-war_6195780_4.html#

Or, if you'd like to go back a few years, the land we stood on, in front of armored bulldozers, to stop innocent people's homes being destroyed. We believed they wouldn't kill us. We were wrong.

http://www.miftah.org/display.cfm?DocId=1715&CategoryId=23#:~:text=The%20Israeli%20army%20has%20destroyed,began%20construction%20in%20October%202002.

For example.

What land are you referring to ?

Sorry, that was Cuddlecouch adopting "indigenous" and "colonisation" .

I wasn't using the word indigenous at all, there.

Well, usually when we talk about indigenous people, we mean those with the earliest claim to the land, and whose ancestors were dispossessed, don't we?

So you seem to be using indigenous in a new and original way, here.

Apologies if this has already been posted.
Hostages of Israeli revenge in the Gaza Strip: Testimonies of 100 released Palestinian detainees reveal crimes of torture, cruel treatment (euromedmonitor.org)

@Cuddlecouch "Palestine is well on the path to liberation" but from what??

One of the issues is that people are arguing about whose ancestors were in places first, hundreds and thousands of years ago, but there are people alive today who were living in their own homes, on their own land, who were thrown out of their own homes by armed men who decided they wanted to be there instead. There are people who are being thrown out of their own homes, on their own land, today.

Are the Palestinians or the Israelis the indigenous people? Isn't it amore complicated situation that you're suggesting here?

Well, because people like Netanyahu, organisations like Hamas, and other important players such as the USA and Iran have all sabotaged efforts or supported the sabotaging of efforts at various times. I also didn't say this sort of thing was simple. I said it was achievable.

If you don't think it is, though, what do you think should happen? Because the options are:
... the status quo
... the total 'removal' of all Palestinians
... the creation of a single state in which Israelis and Palestinians would both be citizens
... unless you can think of something else?

The solution is surely an end to this brutal occupation and ongoing colonisation of indigenous people. Palestine is well on the path to liberation and who can blame them for not wanting to continue to live under this brutal zionist regime.

When South Africa was liberated there were similar cries of 'what about the poor white people who will lose power and be outnumbered?'. Why should anyone care about the feelings of violent colonisers.

Iran works by proxies because it doesn't like getting it's hands dirty.

It's a power-hungry theocracy run by radical Islamists that oppress and abuse their own people.

Their goal is a world caliphate.

More info here.

https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-leaders-our-goal-establishment-global-islamic-caliphate-not-just-liberation-palestine

@Scirocco "It would be entirely achievable to establish and maintain a demilitarised, non-Hamas, Palestinian state as part of a two-state solution."

If it's as simple as you suggest I wonder why it hasn't been done already ?

Which neatly explains what we see.

Except what is the alternative to a two state solution? If there was a one state solution, all Israel, with Palestinians having equal rights to Jewish Israelis, Israel would very quickly, NOT be a Jewish state. Palestinians out birth Jews and would soon be in the majority, they are already fairly even numbers. Or, Israel could continue as is, oppressing the Palestinian people and objecting to a two state on the global stage. Their international support is changing though and will only put up with so much. Muslim Americans are predicted to out number Jewish Americans in the years to come and will be an important vote.

@Tripeandonions
The bottom line is that Israel has killed thousand of innocent children and subjected three times that number to catastrophic life altering injuries. It cannot fully eliminate Hamas and Hamas does not have the capacity to repeat the 7/10 attacks.

It is just immoral to kill so many people in case of future wars

But your whole post was about how Iran are a threat

That is because Hamas don't want peace, they are a proxy of Iran that wants to wipe Israel off the map.
I can only surmise from this that getting rid of Hamas will not protect Israel if Iran is the main threat.

What given the actions taken by Israel since October indicate that they in any way want a two state solution or, in fact, any autonomous Palestinian region where Gaza currently is?

Do you think Israel is going to, what, rebuild the place they're hitting with 6,000 bombs weekly? Ariel Sharon got the IDF out of Gaza in 2005 because it was totally untenable. Is Bibi insane enough to occupy a place he absolutely cannot achieve stated war aims in? Is forever war, to avoid prison, his only card now that the US put the kibosh on a wider conflict with Iran involved?

The actions taken lead to only one thing: ethnic cleansing. Unless someone can explain very carefully how anything Israelis in power are doing now is contrary to that take. Think very carefully about what they say and what they do, because they are very different things right now for non-domestic consumption.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demilitarisation

@Scirocco "Hamas are not the Palestinian people."

No argument about that but apparently 70% of Palestinians support Hamas.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/

"It would be entirely achievable to establish and maintain a demilitarised, non-Hamas, Palestinian state as part of a two-state solution."

I'm not sure what you mean by "demilitarised", please expand.

Hamas are not the Palestinian people. It would be entirely achievable to establish and maintain a demilitarised, non-Hamas, Palestinian state as part of a two-state solution.

Another country's hatred does not mean a Palestinian child should be denied the right to a Palestinian state. It means a Palestinian state may need to be protected from exploitation by that other country.

@Scirocco "And hate-filled rants from Iranian politicians and media do not constitute grounds to deny an oppressed and occupied people their own state."

They do. if Hamas remains in charge and being bankrolled by Iran. It's a matter of security for Israel.
How do they know if they are real threats or just 'sabre rattling' ?

@Dulra "if Iran are the true puppetmasters why are Israel wasting their time in Gaza?"

because the rockets are coming from Gaza not Iran!

@Tripeandonions Hamas is not the Palestinian people. And hate-filled rants from Iranian politicians and media do not constitute grounds to deny an oppressed and occupied people their own state.

Why are Palestinians in Gaza being punished for what Iran says and does? They have no power or influence over Iran and if Iran are the true puppetmasters why are Israel wasting their time in Gaza?
Surely a self governing Palestinian nation state is less of a threat to Israel than an occupied oppressed state that wants to overthrow their oppressor and possibly vulnerable to being influenced by states like Iran.