This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 3)

From the Guardian:
Israel has run an almost decade-long secret “war” against the international criminal court (ICC), deploying its intelligence agencies to surveil, hack, pressure, smear and allegedly threaten senior ICC staff in an effort to derail the court’s inquiries, an investigation by the Guardian and the Israeli-based magazines +972 and Local Call can reveal.

Israeli intelligence captured the communications of numerous ICC officials, including the chief prosecutor, Karim Khan, and his predecessor as prosecutor, Fatou Bensouda, intercepting phone calls, messages, emails and documents.

While understandable in a way that so many (50%) want it under their own control, it is very concerning to think fifty percent of the population just do not see that the outcome, sooner or later, could very likely be more violence, and that this is the way not to be secure imo.
Absolutely agree.
It’s all very depressing.

A report about a poll in The Times of Israel about Israel controlling Gaza after the war:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-half-of-jewish-israelis-say-israel-should-run-gaza-after-the-war-0-say-hamas/

While understandable in a way that so many (50%) want it under their own control, it is very concerning to think fifty percent of the population just do not see that the outcome, sooner or later, could very likely be more violence, and that this is the way not to be secure imo.

The Palestinian terror groups will keep resurrecting because, to Palestinians, Israeli control over Gaza is violent state sanctioned terror against them. It is a vicious circle.

Fifty percent of Israeli Jews support Israel maintaining control of the Gaza Strip after the war against the Hamas terror group ends, according to a Pew Research Center survey published Thursday.

Asked who should govern the Palestinian enclave after the war, half of Jewish respondents said Israel; 15% said they didn’t know; 10% said the Palestinian Authority, but without its president, Mahmoud Abbas; 8% said people who live in Gaza should decide; 7% answered “other”; 5% said the PA with Abbas; 4% said the United Nations; and zero percent said Hamas.

It’s horrible and depressing but I think people become more extreme in their political views when they feel threatened. I’m sure the same is true of Palestinian support for Hamas. It’s a bleak vicious circle.
I imagine that Israelis might not be getting the same news as us about what is happening in Gaza. Their media outlets will probably be less critical of the IDF and they will possibly be receiving a different version of events from us. ( any Israelis on here might be in a better position to confirm if that is the case)
In times of war people are also much less likely to criticise their government because they feel they have a bigger enemy to focus on.
All the above is equally as true of any Palestinian support for Hamas .
It is very depressing .

"If Gaza doesn't make it this time, this means that victory is for the most violent and the most barbaric."

Footballer and actor Eric Cantona reads a testimony from Palestinian photojournalist Bisan Owda, who has been trapped in Gaza since October 2023.

https://x.com/mintpressnews/status/1796613124369297884?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

Quite

They'll have to find another reason now to justify the slaughter

For those saying free the hostages the war will be over

Israel won’t end war for deal to free all hostages, PM’s aide said to tell families
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-wont-end-war-for-deal-to-free-all-hostages-pms-aide-said-to-tell-families/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Over 1 in 3 people responding to the survey actively support Netanyahu to the extent of choosing him for the role.

That slightly undermines the argument that very few people support what he and his government are doing to Palestine and to Palestinians.

This is a man who has vowed to continue until "Total Victory". Who has encouraged and used language that is dehumanising and calling for the eradication of Palestinians. Who invokes references to the Amalek in his speeches to justify killing innocent people.

And over 1 in 3 respondents would choose him again.

I feel sick.

God help us

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-first-time-in-a-year-poll-shows-netanyahu-preferred-to-gantz-as-prime-minister/

poll shows Netanyahu preferred to Gantz as prime minister

Chilling and heinous. But we should be used to the US behaving like depraved psychopaths. They always have when it comes to foreign policy where their interests lie.

In the Guardian this evening.

Stacey Gilbert, a US senior military advisor who was worked in the same department for twenty years has resigned in response to the publication of a report that absolves Israel of blocking aid. She says the subject matter experts, who were not involved in the final edit of the report, believe Israel is blocking aid.

Alexander Smith, a contractor for USAid was preparing to give a talk on maternal and child mortality. He was given the option of dismissal or resigning, he resigned.

“There is consensus among the humanitarian community on that. It is absolutely the opinion of the humanitarian subject matter experts in the state department, and not just in my bureau – people who look at this from the intelligence community and from other bureaus. I would be very hard pressed to think of anyone who has said [Israeli obstruction] is not an issue,” Gilbert said. “That’s why I object to that report saying that Israel is not blocking humanitarian assistance. That is patently false.”

Gilbert was one of two US officials to resign this week over the Biden administration’s Gaza policy. Alexander Smith, a contractor for the US Agency for International Development (USAid), who resigned on Monday, said he was given a choice between resignation and dismissal after preparing a presentation on maternal and child mortality among Palestinians, which was cancelled at the last minute by USAid leadership last week.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/30/stacy-gilbert-us-state-department-israel-gaza-aid

Empathy and enthusiasm are not the same. That would be an entirely different discussion.

But I appreciate the discussion on the dangers of expressing empathy for innocent civilians, both for those who express it, and those who wish to control the narrative by hiding reality.

Made me cry 😥, the medical staff both Palestinian and everyone coming from around the World are amazing and a testament to humanity ❤

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1795921784178446440.html

I’ve also seen the video of the woman getting arrested, it’s terrifying.

So Israel is really at the stage of arresting and blindfolding someone for showing sympathy for beheaded children.

My point was that expressing enthusiasm for the other side is a bit of a risk when the country you live in is at war.

Empathy is always good of course

And is it Ok that a woman has this happen to her for simply expressing empathy? Since when is expressing empathy more dangerous than bombing and starving children? It’s not really about being dangerous is it, it’s about control.

The comment about being surprised was sarcasm, in case that wasn’t clear.

If someone conflates showing empathy for innocent civilians with empathy for the ‘other side’

and views this as dangerous,

then this could help explain why people might be discouraged from watching actual footage of what is happening in Gaza, or protesting,

because if the reality of the suffering was widely shared and as a result empathy for innocent civilians spread through a population,

then this would make it harder for people within that population to shrug their shoulders and agree that well these things do happen in war.

Which in turn makes it more difficult for anyone in power who wants to support (or take) action that causes mass suffering to innocent civilians.

So who benefits from hiding the reality?

@Kindatired

"Hamas does not pose an existential threat to Israel. "

It has been widely reported that Israelis did perceive October 7th as an existential threat. They perceive that they are in a very vulnerable position, (the threat is not just from Hamas, but also Hezbollah / Houthis/ Iran).

"your claim that killing 35,000 Palestinians will save more lives in the event of further Hamas attacks on Israel" I didn't say that.

I said

"I think the world is probably a safer place if Israel continues to exist as a state."

and

"I think that if we have more widespread armed conflict in the world, then it will a much more dangerous place for many many people. It's likely that the disintegration of Israel as a state would be awful for many people in the Middle East and Europe."

But of course I would much rather October 7th and the aftermath had not happened at all.

@Gunnersforthecup
Hamas does not pose an existential threat to Israel. This war is not necessary so your claim that killing 35,000Palestinians will save more lives in the event of further Hamas attacks on Israel is without foundation.

The Hamas attacks on 7/10 occurred against a back drop of never to be repeated defence and intelligence failures. This heinous terrorist attack led to the death of 1200 people as well as the taking of hostages . In the preceding decades, despite launching thousands of rockets, terrorist deaths were a fraction of deaths caused by road traffic accidents.It is widely accepted amongst US military analysts and privately by former IDF military analysts that Hamas does not have the organisational ability to repeat the 7/10 attacks. To claim that Hamas can militarily destroy the state of Israel is propaganda.

Carrying out attacks in a dense urban area is inevitably going to lead to high levels of civilian casualties. You have said this yourself .

From todays New York Times , I quote weapons expert Wes Bryant who says “It indicates continued targeting negligence — either an unwillingness or inability to effectively safeguard civilians. When you use a weapon that’s intended as precision and low collateral damage in an area where civilians are saturated, it really negates that intended use.”

The act of expressing empathy for the other side in war, or simply being regarded as an "alien" has been seen as a danger in the past.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/timeline/factfiles/nonflash/a6651858.shtml#:~:text=Thousands%20of%20Germans%2C%20Austrians%20and,up%20in%20World%20War%20One.

I have been wondering how we would treat "aliens" in the UK if we did end up at war, we are a more cosmopolitan society now than we were 80 years ago.

Why blindfold and ziptie someone when arresting them?

Because you can. Because it is frightening and humiliating. Because you choose to.

Senior Israeli advisor expects conflict in Gaza to last until the end of 2024

No idea how Palestinians are meant to survive another six months of this 😔

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c844g02nl18o

Well what a surprise! The simple act of expressing empathy must make you dangerous!