Q for British Muslims

Haven't you ever taken a survey where the client is clearly wanting a particular outcome? They're not worth shit in terms of data (my particular specialism these days, with a side order of legal compliance).

This is no better statistically speaking than the crap that comes out of local government/politics;

1. Do you agree that the rule of law and order is important? Y/N/DN
2. Do you agree with (opposite party's) proposals to reduce funding of the Police? Y/N/DN
3. Are you concerned about the increase in litter that will happen if (non existent) plans to reduce refuse collections in your neighbourhood go ahead? Y/N/DK

And then the results are used for political gain or to then say 'everybody agreed with the £380/month council tax we've just set'.

It's what in common parlance can be termed a Trap.

Here's the full poll results. Make of it what you will. I find it very interesting though that only certain questions also include the views of the general public or that those results didn't make the headlines.

henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HJS-Deck-200324-Final.pdf

Several posts later this is still the standout post with very few wishing to discuss the actual findings.

@1dayatatime I think it covers other topics and appears to be framed to give a negative overall picture of Muslim culture. A serious look at those attitudes to Oct 7th would not concern itself with preferences for religious holidays, ideas around sacred images etc. It is quite plainly a dog whistle to me.

Because the study looks at attitudes to the 7th October attacks.

I agree with @stormy4319trevor that the timing and context of the thread is perhaps not the most sensitive. If @Muthaofcats you'd be interested, I'm happy to share my own opinions on some of the questions - I anticipate I'll get a pile on from some of the usual characters, but that's not new.

This. It's also conflating British people's support for Palestinians with support for Hamas.

@ScrollingLeavesin relation to your other post, I love how our faiths' accounts of the lives of Jesus (peace be upon him) and Mary (peace be upon her) can give such detail and depth to them both - there are differences in the accounts, yes, but what shines through in both faiths is how inspirational and beloved they are.

I don't think it helps to understand why so many take a particular position because: a) the study is possibly flawed, b) the study is related to a biased agenda, c) it represents a tiny portion of the UK rather than many. The danger with posting such a survey in the CME board is that you demonise Muslims and therefore Palestinians (who are largely Muslim), in the eyes of those who read it. Basically you present the argument that Muslims are savage, backwards people, therefore Palestinians are, therefore they do not deserve our sympathy. I don't suppose this to be your intention, but I'm concerned that this study can only incite prejudice against a group of people and indifference to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

But to be clear, isn’t this thread and the questionnaire about how things are in the U.K

Someone tried to bring up that MENA countries maintain separation of church and state … which is pretty ridiculous when everything in most MENA countries (Turkey is a real outlier here) must conform to Islamic values. Does it really matter if a literal Imam is not part of government when you can still be executed for blasphemy?

Yes there were many condemnation from different organisations / councils. However with your question, which community do you mean? There's not one big homogenous Muslim community with a spokesman just as there isn't one homogenous Christian community. We don't expect CoE members to come out and condemn the actions of a Pentecostal Christian for example.

The UK has a political arrangement and governance structure literally requiring Christian Clergy of a particular denomination to be appointed to it. It requires every state funded school to hold a daily act of collective (broadly) Christian worship. The assumed default oath in Court is to swear on a (Protestant) Bible unless the witness/defendant chooses something else. The Monarch takes part in a Christian religious ceremony and rites in order to become monarch. Christian organisations are very active both in matters of poverty and more specifically in terms of women's reproductive health. When there are a bunch of Christians of whatever variety accosting, praying at or intimidating just by intruding on the personal space and staring at women attending clinics for the termination of pregnancy, the fitting of longterm birth control or sterilisation or repeatedly campaigning to reduce the gestation at which a woman can make the decision that is right for her regarding pregnancy or being part of the upper house to argue for or against passing those changes, they don't exactly come across as keeping their spiritual beliefs particularly private, either.

Thank you for pointing that out. That would be a more accurate and nuanced way to put it.

@changefromhr come over to our dedicated board - we're having radical and uncivilised discussions about wrapping children's presents and recipes!

@ItsRainingTacos79 , I can’t recall; was there widespread condemnation from the Muslim community? A ‘Not in my name ‘ moment?

"Oh my god these nasty uneducated muslims"
It's been a while but how I missed an Islamophobic thread, based on so called 'research' from a right wing organisation. Just in time for Eid as well. Bravo.

I'd say recognised or agreed with the statement, rather than admit (admit makes it sound a bit like it's being taken as a confession of guilt)...?

In relation to that question in the survey, it's a very basic polling error to ask as question that has two parts included in the same question, because people might have questions about one part but not the other, which then skews the overall response. It would have been a more robust approach to ask separate questions about killing and sexual violence, which would then give a clearer overall picture of respondents' views.

I'm no statistics expert but this sounds like they've filtered only the Muslim responses from the River group (not sure if it specifies exactly what advertising they've decided to use for this) and used that as representative of British Muslims and then I suppose removed the British Muslim respondents from the general public group responses?

Which then sounds like no suprise that a think-tank that is generally anti-islam produces findings which match their usual leanings. I'd be interested to know what the Muslim/ Non-Muslim findings were from the general public group 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, 24% British Muslims said Hamas did murder and rape, and 38% said they did not know- that is 62% in total.

This is why I dislike all religions. I hope that in years to come the world will be much more secular and there won’t be as much conflict.

It’s so heartbreaking what’s going on in the Middle East at the moment, those poor people.

I missed that. So 62% of British Muslims did admit Hamas murdered and raped, or that they did not know? If so, that is a relatively high number. More than needed to get Brexit, more than needed to get a party into power.

Speaking as a Jewish person, I do find myself doubting early reports of Israel’s war crimes and withholding with a “I don’t know” or “no way they could have” initial reaction because due to antisemtic tropes, I can’t take any reports at face value. I flat out disbelieved some of the reports coming from Gaza initially. All the Israeli officials were denying them, so who do I believe? For some of the bad incidents, the things that are war crimes, it took me a long time and a lot of verification accept some of them definitely had happened. The bar of proof is higher than it is for my nonJewish friends.

I can imagine that British Muslims similar to British Jews might have similar reactions and thought processes because they too can’t really trust the news sources from the start. It’s hard to sift truth out in a conflict that hits close to home and you have both antisemitic and islamaphobic propaganda in the mix.