Is Israel on its way to being a "Failed State?"

@statsfun

Makes sense. This is a war.

There has been no legal judgment on actual genocide in Gaza and genocide is an extremely charged term and everyone knows it. The notion that there may be some threat of genocide is basically trying to frame from some that there has been an excessive impact on the civilian population during a war and is way to get and get Israel to change its military tactics.

I really do object to the word genocide being used in conjunction with this war because thougn everyone accepts there has been a large civilian death toll genocide implies a systemic and determined way to eradicate a people on a very personal level and not necessarily in the context of war. This happened in Nazi Germany so I really think we have to be careful in every way of the word here.

Who I is meant to be commiting the genocide? Has the Israeli cabinet ordered the OFF to kill all Gazans on sight? Is the IDF executing Gazans en masse? Are the Israeli people cheering on such an alleged atrocity? No.

If there was really a genocide most nations would cut ties with Israel immediately, expelling ambassadors, and imposing massive sanctions if not militarily acting to prevent it.

This is what not genocide.

@statsfun

Makes sense. This is a war.

There has been no legal judgment on actual genocide in Gaza and genocide is an extremely charged term and everyone knows it. The notion that there may be some threat of genocide is basically trying to frame from some that there has been an excessive impact on the civilian population during a war and is way to get and get Israel to change its military tactics.

I really do object to the word genocide being used in conjunction with this war because thougn everyone accepts there has been a large civilian death toll genocide implies a systemic and determined way to eradicate a people on a very personal level and not necessarily in the context of war. This happened in Nazi Germany so I really think we have to be careful in every way of the word here.

Who I is meant to be commiting the genocide? Has the Israeli cabinet ordered the OFF to kill all Gazans on sight? Is the IDF executing Gazans en masse? Are the Israeli people cheering on such an alleged atrocity? No.

If there was really a genocide most nations would cut ties with Israel immediately, expelling ambassadors, and imposing massive sanctions if not militarily acting to prevent it.

This is what not genocide.

Israel is at war with Hamas.

1.Hamas were elected in 2005. There was quite a lot of bloodshed - and elections have been suspended since then - but that's hardly unique in the world. A government certainly doesn't have to be fairly and democratically elected to be a government.

2.Hamas administer Gaza, eg police and hospitals

3.Hamas have an army. At the start of the war they had 30,000 fighters, organised by area into five brigades, consisting in total of 24 battalions and approx 140 companies. They have fewer now.

4.Hamas still launch missiles at Israel daily, and engage with IDF soldiers in firefights.

Gaza isn't recognised as a country. But lots of countries didn't recognise Israel either until the last few years. Were all the military attacks by the Arab countries before they recognised Israel (eg 1948 and 1967) not wars either? Or is it only when Israel is the stronger side that it isn't a war?

(Incidentally, even civil wars are still wars, where only one country is involved. Not that this is a civil war, since Gaza is not part of Israel)

I’m aware that it’s called that (because Israel calls it a war). In reality it’s not a war though. The most powerful military in the world is bombing a small strip of land the the ground and slaughtering 10s of thousands of innocent civilians (most of whom are women and children) and preventing them from receiving water, food and medical supplies in response to terrorist actions by a terrorist group. That is not war!

This does not give a clue to skin tone, is there some sort of Dulux chart you're consulting?

No I don’t think so. A failed state is one in which institutions don’t work for it’s own people. A pariah state possibly but I doubt it’s institutions are so weak that it becomes a failed state. Afghanistan is a failed state for comparison.

@AnnieSnap

have a quick look at the BBC news website. They have an Israel Gaza war tab. (Really good analysis by Jeremy Bowen as well)

@LemonyTicket I am impressed you have someone so 'interested' In you and your heritage.

Right so Israel is not going to become a 'failed state' not is is it fragile.

We have a situation where I believe Benjamin Netanayahu is under significant political pressure internally (Israel is a democracy) and I think it is legitimate to speculate there may be an early election. I think there are questions Israelis are asking about how October 7th was allowed to happen and the current hostage situation (have they been foegotten?).

It is likely we will see a recalibrarion of the Israeli response to the October 7th attacks due to international pressure. It is likely Israel will still prosecute the war though there may be changes in tactics. I think Israel will have to be more transparent about its war aims and how the current military strategy is meant to achieve these aims.

There is a lot of talk about international law but international law is very much a complex beast and is actually reliant on sovereign nations recognising its existence. We await to see what advice individual states are given about the law by their lawyers. I am kind of guessing Hamas did not consult any of their lawyers before ordering the October 7th attacks and I am again kind of guessing holding and sexually assaulting hostages might break some kind of international law but who knows I am not a lawyer)

Israel long term will be safe, hopefully prosperous state that will be a home to the Jewsish people as well as others. There is no prospect of the international community viewing it as failed state such as Afghanistan. Israel will continue to be a liberal democracy surrounded by states wishing it's failure but I am sorry bit won't fail.

@AnnieSnap

have a quick look at the BBC news website. They have an Israel Gaza war tab. (Really good analysis by Jeremy Bowen as well)

Right so Israel is not going to become a 'failed state' not is is it fragile.

We have a situation where I believe Benjamin Netanayahu is under significant political pressure internally (Israel is a democracy) and I think it is legitimate to speculate there may be an early election. I think there are questions Israelis are asking about how October 7th was allowed to happen and the current hostage situation (have they been foegotten?).

It is likely we will see a recalibrarion of the Israeli response to the October 7th attacks due to international pressure. It is likely Israel will still prosecute the war though there may be changes in tactics. I think Israel will have to be more transparent about its war aims and how the current military strategy is meant to achieve these aims.

There is a lot of talk about international law but international law is very much a complex beast and is actually reliant on sovereign nations recognising its existence. We await to see what advice individual states are given about the law by their lawyers. I am kind of guessing Hamas did not consult any of their lawyers before ordering the October 7th attacks and I am again kind of guessing holding and sexually assaulting hostages might break some kind of international law but who knows I am not a lawyer)

Israel long term will be safe, hopefully prosperous state that will be a home to the Jewsish people as well as others. There is no prospect of the international community viewing it as failed state such as Afghanistan. Israel will continue to be a liberal democracy surrounded by states wishing it's failure but I am sorry bit won't fail.