Anyone seen the video where the police officer says a swastika is not anti-Semitic at a pro Palestine March?

I apologise- I may have missed the posts you refer to. I sometimes skim through posts.
Im definitely not one of the people who was silent about 7/10. I have not forgotten what happened on 7/10 and I chose not to take part in the weekly marches because they didn’t condemn Hamas or ask for the release of the hostages.
I’m not on a “side” . I just think that the suffering has to stop and it is unhelpful to try to justify or make allowances for every IDF action however appalling.

It’s quite obvious the point you were making and also obvious you were in no way undermining the tragedy. I’ve noticed the pattern is always the same, any attempts to consider different perspectives or possibilities will be screamed down with lines like ‘you obviously love dead babies’ or similar.

Interestingly these people were ominously silent on 7/10 when they witnessed families being rounded up from their beds and shot and teenagers chased down and executed point blank (if they were lucky) and raped and degraded first (if they weren’t). Where was horror as the first response then?

With such an awful situation I hope the investigation is swift.

@Dibilnik
I hope you will withdraw your accusation of antisemitism. This is one of the worst things you can call someone.

This is absolutely correct. I am awaiting the investigation to pass too much judgement though. My gut feeling is that there was an IDF member who made this choice and if they did this, they should be on trial for murder.

Im sure you’re not horrible but speculating without evidence is inflammatory in this context.

When engaging in a course of action that's likely to result in someone dying, it's important to actually have considered defensibility of actions.

That includes strategic views of the broader situation, communication and coordination, and, when possible, consideration by individuals.

For example, there are three vehicles driving along a road. Let's say a drone operator thinks they look suspicious. Unless something absolutely immediate needs stopped and they are the only person who can make that call, they then flag up their concern. They can then be advised, perhaps: " do not shoot, aid convoy in the area". Given there are concerns raised i this scenario, the convoy could then be stopped and searched. Unless it's an immediate life and death decision, you check before you pull the trigger.

My first response was to mention the "poor souls" in the vehicles and say "how desperately sad it is."

Listen, you go on enjoying your one-side debate. I'm bored with being told I'm a horrible person just because I am not toeing your line.

The only thing the IDF have said is the error was misidentification. Nothing about arms transportation in the aid convoy

However I did see an article in the times today where a senior Israeli official was lamenting on the growing culture amongst the IDF of 'shoot first, ask questions later' which could be one the reasons behind the tragic incident. It wouldn't be the first documented instance of this happening in Gaza either.

I find it shocking that your first response is not horror that an Aid convoy has been targeted.

Of being in conflict zones where terrorist groups are operating, yes.

Of working closely with military forces in those areas and disaster areas, yes.

Of holding the guns, no.

Presumably you're aware that in war, there is no time to hold a lengthy and detailed debate in court every time a decision is made?

For sure, there will be some messy situational ethics to work through when all this is over.

Do you have any reason for thinking the aid convoy was being used for military purposes? Or is that conjecture?

. I think it’s up to the IDF to prove they had a reason for targeting the aid convoy - not for the Aid convoy to prove their innocence.

Erm, no. Do you?

Of course innocent civilians "shouldn't be targeted." That's what makes them so ideal for Hamas's purposes.

And on what basis would that be confirmed? Presumably you're aware of how that would need to be defensible upon review, including having reasonable grounds?

Yes. Do you?

@Dibilnik I agree with your point about naivety on how war works (or more accurately doesn’t).

In the heat of battle the reality of the IDF in Gaza is a mass of 18-21 year olds trying their best to make accurate split second decisions, that have devastating consequences if they get them wrong. Mistakes are made, people panic, with sometimes awful consequences. I think that’s the reality of most wars actually.

Think how awful the uk govt was at making effective policy decisions during Covid, a fast moving crisis. Then think how awful any govt is going to be during an ongoing evolving war. Mistakes made are generally that - mistakes. Not a sinister evil plot.

Strangely, every person with military experience with whom I've discussed this, also seems to think that civilians and aid convoys shouldn't be targeted like this.

Have these experts got direct experience of fighting against a terrorist group that doesn't give two shits about the normal rules of war?

If an aid convoy is used for military purposes, such as transporting weapons, then it can lose its protection under international humanitarian law. This is obviously a complex issue and decisions in wartime must be made quickly, balancing one horror against another.

Me pointing this out does not mean I support innocent people being killed. It's rather insulting of you to suggest that.

I don't think you're naive at all. I think that, unlike some people, you seem to actually care about and recognise that civilians and aid convoys shouldn't be cobsidered legitimate targets. I wish more people in this conflict and on these boards could recognise that too.

Strangely, every person with military experience with whom I've discussed this, also seems to think that civilians and aid convoys shouldn't be targeted like this.

I don't care.
I'm not going to just shrug my shoulders at the deaths of thousands of children. I hope I never will have that attitude. If this was the UK government doing this I'd never shut up about how wrong it is.

In that case, please could you explain to those of us who you consider naive, under what circumstances it is acceptable to target innocent people and aid convoys?

Where did I say the only possible reason to target the aid convoy was to disrupt supply? I even said Hamas weapons could have been hidden but its still not OK to target innocent people. As I said, I think you and I have fundamentally different values.

I think you might be rather naive about how war works.

Yes, I think it is antisemitic to keep insisting, despite having no real clue, that the only possible reason Israel would target an aid convoy is to kill innocent people and disrupt aid supplies. It's just more of that "Evil Israel" trope that is so popular on these threads.

For all you or I know, the IDF is having to make some pretty fucking awful decisions when fighting against a terrorist group that is known to shelter behind forbidden targets.