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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

There are good reasons for avoiding talk of this conflict in schools

281 replies

mids2019 · 30/03/2024 06:27

Schools in England accused of closing down debate on Israel-Gaza conflict https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/29/schools-england-accused-closing-down-debate-israel-gaza-conflict?CMP=share_btn_url

If we wish pupils to discuss this conflict in schools it should be added to history lessons as part of modern history with an unbiased appraisal of the complex nature of the middle East especially post WW2. As say discussion about WW1 or the Napoleonic wars the conflict should be put into context of wider global geopolitical pressures with a nuanced analysis with importantly no bias.

What we don't want and I think the article below implies are discussions where pupils get to rant about 'evil Israel' and a school sanctioned display of Palestinian solidarity which some children may feel will allow them to express anti Semitic sentiment. I could easily see a passionate class pupil lead discussion leading to some pupils saying the problem couk d be solved as not having Israel in the first place and criticise Britian in its role in the formation of Israel. We have to avoid this.

Teachers are right to not want to allow discussion on class where tanti Semitic or anti Israel views could be be openly expressed with little sanction. Schools have quite rightly very severe policies on discrimination and racism and it would be easy for the pupils or even a teacher to overstep the mark in these areas.

We also have to consider the feelings of Jewish and Muslim children who may feel they may be targets for bullying as a result of these 'discussions'.

I fully support school decisions to not allow formal discussion of this topic currently though we do discuss the events of October 7th and the resultant war in my home with the aid of reputable media and valid wider historical context.

Schools in England accused of closing down debate on Israel-Gaza conflict

Government adviser says teachers feel ill-equipped to talk about controversial topics but avoiding debate risks fuelling anger

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/29/schools-england-accused-closing-down-debate-israel-gaza-conflict?CMP=share_btn_url

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Limesodaagain · 09/04/2024 11:06

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We all agree it’s terrible. I just don’t think it is wise to bring the discussion into school

Katy265 · 09/04/2024 10:03

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Original poster
mids2019 · 02/04/2024 10:47

Mental health support importantly should be offered to individuals in an individual confidential basis. I am not a teacher as pointed out but I presume schools offer this.

I was watching this morning a spokesman from the IDF giving a perspective of the course of the war on BBC news. I presume some posters would be switching off the TV with a number of curses at this point.

If you want meaningful debate in an academic sense you have to allow that viewpoint and yet allowing that viewpoint may cause offense and anger in some pupils.

More reason for not facilitating debate

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Original poster
mids2019 · 02/04/2024 10:23

@twinklestar10

Please look up definitions of debate and discussion in a literal sense.

I respect your honesty in that you are advocating a room for protest not debate in schools and I think that is a separate discussion. Personally I think and many teachers will agree protest does not have a place in school.

It is quite obvious from you postings the strength of feeling you have for this issue so I put it to you what is to be gained from a group of passionate teenagers in a non anonymous environment expressing this feelings in school with confidence their will be no retribution or consequences against children with opposing views?

We all are horrified by images from the middle East as with a lot of foreign situations and those feelings are legitimate. However it is simply not the place of schools to promote a political point of view or indulge in discussion that is not of benefit to the school community.

Info not work in a school but I do value education and community relations.

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Original poster
mids2019 · 02/04/2024 10:12

I think the reasons for not holding such debates are being very eloquently put by a number of posters on this thread. I think something that has cemented my view is the emotive language used by those advocating such debates. A debate or discussion has a definition (use a dictionary) and again students wish to emote their feelings about a foreign conflict that has wide spread coverage in the internet age. Schools are not responsible for facilitating this no matter the strength of feeling or the distressing nature of the conflict. Schools are places of learning and by definition these debates don't seem to be wanted as means of learning about the history and politics of the middle East or even as means of appreciating others perspectives but simply as a means of protest and expression of feeling with the hopeful affirmation of the school.

I was reflecting on this and one thing that is incredibly important that we do not do anything to exacerbate racial or religious tension. There may be a feeling by some that the actions of Israel are 'anti Muslim' and if schools are not willing to participate in such debates then they are in some way endorsing this view. This is simply wrong.

We may have students expressing opinion that there is something inherently anti Islamic about the nature and prosecution of this war and by extension the historical and current political positioning of the British state.

We do not want conversations in schools which of not extremely carefully regulated could lead to polarisation of pupil cohorts exacerbated by their opinions on a foreign war. I am sure schools do a hell of a lot in terms of promoting community cohesion and certainly will not be in a position to allow inflammatory discussions which could easily being race and religion into them in an obvious way.

Again this is not about silencing people but making schools place of learning where all pupils feel safe and we minimise any unnecessary discussion which leads to community division rather than understanding.

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statsfun · 02/04/2024 09:08

It takes a lot of courage to speak out against wrongdoers in a country with a government that is enabling the oppressors to do what they're doing

No. It doesn't take any courage to affirm the opinion of the loudest and angriest people in your country.

It takes courage to protect the children in your care - even when you don't like what their relatives are doing.

statsfun · 02/04/2024 08:53

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"This isn't up for debate"?

A dismissive 'that's your opinion, thank you for sharing' to any child who disagreed with you on this complex and emotive subject?

WTF?!?
It's obvious that different views are held: you just need to look at all the discussion on this board!

The pp above who said that those teachers who are willing to have this discussion in school are the very ones who don't have the ability to do it appropriately. Very much a case of fools rushing in where angels fear to tread.

I very much hope for their own sake that there aren't any Jewish children in your school, or children with family in Israel. I doubt you know whether there are, and they certainly aren't going to tell you now. Nor will they tell you now if they experience bullying over it or even family loss - since you've made your own opinion very clear. You've abused your position as a teacher to legitimize that bullying and any attacks on their family.

Comedycook · 02/04/2024 08:05

CurlyWurly1991 · 02/04/2024 07:58

I think that’s a bit of a leap, surely?

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I think they were responding to some quite shocking posts on another thread which have now been deleted.

CurlyWurly1991 · 02/04/2024 08:03

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I am sympathetic to this view and also recognise the legitimate points made by posters about how a discussion such as this could become quite toxic. I taught in schools with a similar demographic and we did discuss current affairs issues - especially in sixth form tutor, pshe etc. For example refugee crisis at the time, hate speech from trump etc.
The Israel / Palestine conflict is especially sensitive and very complex so I think it is fair to say that without very skilful facilitation it could become highly polarised.
There are some facts that are not contentious (in my view) broadcast by reputable media and charitable organisations. I am trying to reflect on how I would keep a discussion to these rather than stray into what could become quite heated, and I think it would actually be very difficult.

CurlyWurly1991 · 02/04/2024 07:58

kasstherito · 01/04/2024 23:26

And if you had a pupil who is Israeli and has family there, would you tell them that you think Israel should cease to exist and that all Israelis should go back to where they came from?

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I think that’s a bit of a leap, surely?

LolaSmiles · 02/04/2024 07:20

I wouldn’t be happy with a pro Israeli teacher conducting a ‘ non debate “ of this sort either.
I would consider it an abuse of the teacher’s position
This illustrates exactly why trying to debate a complex issue is something many sensible teachers will have reservations about. Whatever a member of staff does on this topic, someone is going to claim that it's taking a side.

As adults we will all have our own position on the conflict and the political situation. Look at how difficult adults find it to discuss the issue without resorting to claims of "you hate..." "You can't say..." "But what about...." Expecting a member of staff to hold 30 teenagers to a higher standard than most adults is a recipe for disaster.

For what it's worth, there is a lot of focus on the people who want to debate and not enough focus on the rest of the class who want to come to school and have their maths lesson be a maths lesson.

MyNameIsFine · 02/04/2024 07:12

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Yeah, because that response doesn't make it really obvious you're dismissing that opinion 🙄

snowbird21 · 02/04/2024 06:28

Teaching history is very different from a current affairs debate

Limesodaagain · 02/04/2024 06:03

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“These are facts and if anyone supports that then that is very strange.”
We do not know the facts yet. There is a vast amount of misinformation from both sides.
We do know innocent people are suffering. Teachers should not use the horror of that fact for their own political agenda.
Supposing a teacher thinks that Israel should not exist? Feels hatred for all Israelis? How safe would a Jewish child feel in that class?

Katy265 · 02/04/2024 04:43

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Limesodaagain · 02/04/2024 00:32

I think - given the hateful messages from a poster on another thread - it should be clear to most people why “there are good reasons for avoiding this topic in schools”.

Limesodaagain · 01/04/2024 23:29

I wouldn’t be happy with a pro Israeli teacher conducting a ‘ non debate “ of this sort either.
I would consider it an abuse of the teacher’s position.

Limesodaagain · 01/04/2024 23:26

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That comes across as dismissive and patronising.

kasstherito · 01/04/2024 23:26

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And if you had a pupil who is Israeli and has family there, would you tell them that you think Israel should cease to exist and that all Israelis should go back to where they came from?

Limesodaagain · 01/04/2024 23:23

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I don’t think our role as teachers is to persuade our pupils that our political views are the correct ones. You say this issue isn’t up for debate so what you want to do is use your privileged position as a teacher to “tell” your pupils what to think.
I don’t think that is something you should be doing in lesson time or tutor time.

twinklestar10 · 01/04/2024 22:49

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Comedycook · 01/04/2024 22:46

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So according to you, it's not up for debate. So what happens if a pupil disagrees with you?

twinklestar10 · 01/04/2024 22:22

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twinklestar10 · 01/04/2024 21:48

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Limesodaagain · 01/04/2024 15:03

I will also say that I have no personal involvement in this conflict but even I find it a very distressing and disturbing topic and I am in awe of posters on here who manage to remain calm and courteous in discussion despite their distress.
Also - as this is an ongoing situation and people are dying as we speak I don’t think the time is right for academic detachment and analysis (aperture from that of professionals and politicians) so I really can’t see how this would work in a classroom