To wonder how anyone thought what was happening in Gaza was ok?

Orphaned kids and 72 virgins!! …didn’t you just complain about another MNs so called conspiracy stories!

Israel has a military of about 160k. It's a small country, that was not at war. Many are aged 18 - 21 and work in jobs such as office assistants, teachers, interpreters or maintenance roles. Many of those very brave young people went to defend their country after it was invaded and many of their people were murdered and kidnapped.

Hamas strapped suicide vests to orphaned 15 years olds in exchange for money and promises of 72 virgins.

I am sure this is completely the same thing :)

The same Al-Shifa where Hamas and Islamic Jihad are based?

The same Al-Shifa where Hamas and Islamic Jihad are based?

The minimising of hamas killing spree is off the scale. Comparing to the IRA killing over 25 years. Good grief. What's the point in even bothering to reply to some of these ridiculous comparisons.

Really? The IDF don't execute healthcare workers?

Yay. I guess my friends who were shot dead at Al-Shifa must just be playing a naughty trick on me then.

Israel is fighting a war against an enemy who are explicitly committed to the annihilation of the Jewish people. That is a genocidal aim. The defence against this isn’t.

There is no moral comparison between the deliberate slaughter of people because of they were Jews and the inadvertent killing of innocent civilians in defending yourself against a genocidal enemy who do not care about the lives of their own people, who welcome death, and will deliberately place their rocket launchers on the backs of children, because they know that any accidental civilian death in response can be used as a propaganda weapon against the enemy. Hamas cares about killing Jews, not about protecting its own people.

Israel do not deliberately kill health workers and journalists. Israel has never called for the destruction of all Palestinians .

You're skipping out an awful lot of fairly important information. Arafat briefly went along with negotiations and then backed out. He rejected the offer made to him by Ehud Barak based on a two-state solution and declined to negotiate for an alternative plan. So your half of the story doesn't mean much as it never materialised. Clinton said it was a waste of time!

The movements Israel made for peace were fruitless. Disengaging Gaza was a huge concession, and the response they got was Hamas. Bombs fired at them within a few weeks of leaving, and declarations of imminent annihilation which have not stopped since. This is hardly a sign people want peace with you, is it?

Whilst I was hopeful Hamas were not completely stupid and might see the best thing to do was move forwards in peace, they had clearly instead spent literally years planning this horrific terror attack which they would have been fully aware would kill any peace negotiations for years, perhaps even forever. And they have since gone on live television and stated openly they'd use a two state solution to plot a takeover and annihilation of Israel.

I don't deny the "Nakba" happened. I deny it's uniqueness. The same happened to Jews and many other people, including my own family. In fact I understate, because unlike the dispossession of most people's, this occurred at least partly because Palestinians chose to launch a war and then lost. The Nakba is in effect a very long grieving period for losing a war and being unable to accept the consequences like every other country on the planet in history.

The people who did not want to murder Jews and throw them in the sea stayed put and were made Israeli citizens. My family would have loved to be allowed to stay and be citizens of the countries where they'd lived for generations - but no such option was given, so excuse me if I don't join your bandwagon in believing this sad event was somehow so terrible that no one can possibly move on.

I do not believe Jewish people have "more right". I believe they have equal right. What was once Israel is now no longer Israel. Parts of it are in Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. Jews are not murdering everyone to get it back. They accepted part of the land, and Palestinians had to accept part of it too. That is the choice people need to make, unless they want to fight to the death for it - and if they choose that then what do you want? Israel to commit suicide and just let them have it?

The fact is that Muslims took over this land and they implemented Islamic rule, which included making all people who were NOT Muslim dhimmi, subordinate to Muslims in a legal and very real sense. They have a certain way of life and living and certain belief systems that link their politics / law to their religious beliefs. And that's fine. What is NOT fine is to force with guns and bombs that all indigenous people succumb to this.

Palestine, has one of the most fundamentalist populations on Earth, with only Afghanistan and Pakistan scoring higher on the scales of religious piety. They almost all believe that homosexuality should be illegal for example. And that's up to them, but they cannot force ALL people to live this way.

Jews are indigenous to Israel. The Mosque is literally built ON TOP OF the Temple. It is their home too. And now they have a tiny piece of it (certainly not all) to rule themselves as they wish to live. They want western democracy and liberalism. They want freedoms. They want a country where Jews, Christians and Muslims are equal under law. They want democracy. They want music festivals where women dance in tiny clothes.

Why should they not be allowed this independence? The entire middle east simple does not belong to Muslims. Other people were there first and have just as much right to live THEIR belief system and THEIR way of life on those lands. It's as simple as that.

Palestinians were given 80% of the land by the Peel commission. They refused it. They were given 50% of the land by the UN. They refused it. Nothing other than 100% of the land is acceptable to them and it seems to me that most people just think "well just give it to them".

No. That isn't what justice or fairness looks like, they must share, just like everyone else had to.

There’s many witness reports that state that health workers and journalists are being targeted. Netanyahu held a map up of Israel in September that clearly showed Israel over the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Genocide of the Palestinians has always been his plan .He made it clear he wanted that land and several Israeli politicians have stated they want the destruction of all Palestinians so by your reasoning does that give the Palestinians the right to anihalate Israel as Israel has called for the destruction of all Palestinians
. It’s never ever ever acceptable to kill an innocent civilian and I struggle to comprehend how Israel supporters are so comfortable with the slaughter of 15000 children. It really doesn’t paint you in a good light . I don’t think you appreciate how genocidal your post sounds !!!!

The scale of Israel’s terrorist problem is similar to the troubles in Northern Ireland ???

The IRA killed 1700 people over 25 years. That included roughly 1000 members of the British security forces and 500–644 civilians.

Hamas killed 1200 in one day, mostly civilians.

And even that doesn't tell the whole story: the UK population is 10 times bigger than Israel's. So in terms of the impact on the population, it's the equivalent to us having 12,000 people killed.

I'm pretty sure the UK would have responded pretty strongly if the IRA had raped, tortured and slaughtered 12,000 Brits in a single day. And taken 2000 more hostage, including children, the elderly, ill and injured. That's the proportional number. The equivalent would be everyone living in the town of Glastonbury being brutally slaughtered - plus an extra 4000 visitors. (Not the festival, which has far more people, but the quirky pacifist town).

I really don't think the UK government would have just accepted that.

There’s many witness reports that state that health workers and journalists are being targeted. Netanyahu held a map up of Israel in September that clearly showed Israel over the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Genocide of the Palestinians has always been his plan .He made it clear he wanted that land and several Israeli politicians have stated they want the destruction of all Palestinians so by your reasoning does that give the Palestinians the right to anihalate Israel as Israel has called for the destruction of all Palestinians
. It’s never ever ever acceptable to kill an innocent civilian and I struggle to comprehend how Israel supporters are so comfortable with the slaughter of 15000 children. It really doesn’t paint you in a good light . I don’t think you appreciate how genocidal your post sounds !!!!

It is not ethnic cleansing. Israel are fighting a defensive war against a genocidal enemy. The death toll is appalling but this is because the war is being fought in a densely populated area against an enemy who use their own civilians as human shields.

It isn't even about religious fundamentalism. I have a Libyan sister in law and whilst she herself wanted western freedoms and escaped to the UK as a refugee, her family are very happy with living in a fundamentalist culture. They believe the Quran is God's law on earth, and they're happy to live a life where women are very limited in their freedoms and where homosexuality is not permitted. And good luck to them if that is THIER wish.

What they cannot do is take over the entire region and demand everyone capitulate. Jewish people don't want to live under Islamic belief systems, and why should they have to? Why should anyone who doesn't want to? People are perfectly entitled to their religious beliefs, customs and culture but they are not entitled to erase everyone elses.

The scale of Israel’s terrorist problem is similar to the troubles in Northern Ireland ???

The IRA killed 1700 people over 25 years. That included roughly 1000 members of the British security forces and 500–644 civilians.

Hamas killed 1200 in one day, mostly civilians.

And even that doesn't tell the whole story: the UK population is 10 times bigger than Israel's. So in terms of the impact on the population, it's the equivalent to us having 12,000 people killed.

I'm pretty sure the UK would have responded pretty strongly if the IRA had raped, tortured and slaughtered 12,000 Brits in a single day. And taken 2000 more hostage, including children, the elderly, ill and injured. That's the proportional number. The equivalent would be everyone living in the town of Glastonbury being brutally slaughtered - plus an extra 4000 visitors. (Not the festival, which has far more people, but the quirky pacifist town).

I really don't think the UK government would have just accepted that.

The scale of Israel’s terrorist problem is similar to the troubles in Northern Ireland ???

The IRA killed 1700 people over 25 years. That included roughly 1000 members of the British security forces and 500–644 civilians.

Hamas killed 1200 in one day, mostly civilians.

And even that doesn't tell the whole story: the UK population is 10 times bigger than Israel's. So in terms of the impact on the population, it's the equivalent to us having 12,000 people killed.

I'm pretty sure the UK would have responded pretty strongly if the IRA had raped, tortured and slaughtered 12,000 Brits in a single day. And taken 2000 more hostage, including children, the elderly, ill and injured. That's the proportional number. The equivalent would be everyone living in the town of Glastonbury being brutally slaughtered - plus an extra 4000 visitors. (Not the festival, which has far more people, but the quirky pacifist town).

I really don't think the UK government would have just accepted that.

@LemonyTicket
You can see from @Auvergne63 ’s chart that road traffic accidents kill kill more Israel’s than terrorists. The scale of Israel’s terrorist problem is similar to the troubles in Northern Ireland. But the British did not take the approach of mass extermination of whole neighbourhoods in case a terrorist might be in the basement. Therefore I think that is very unlikely that current prime ministers of the UK would do so.

Also your comments about Muslims are offensive and I think Islamophobic. In relation to women’s rights, there is some very good research from the Norwegian refugee council and the University of Exeter on this topic. Basically it indicated that the blockade of Gaza and the occupation of the West Bank is inherently linked to the lack of progression on this front and puts the blame firmly at Israel's feet.

Your comments about Muslims are offensive and I think Islamophobic.

I’ve seen a lot of comments like this, but when asked, no response is ever given.

Why are LemonyTicket’s comments offensive? What about them is Islamophobic?

I asked a similar question on another thread, but there was no clarification given. It would be good to know what exactly is Islamophobic about criticising religious fundamentalism? As someone who was raised Catholic, but no longer practices, I have never had this accusation made to me when critising the Church. Clarification would be helpful.

This seems quite a desperate response, if I’m honest.

The poster said kids, I assumed she was talking about children. She has since clarified that they are not in fact kids but young adults that they train to kill.

Are you implying Israeli authorities let their citizens be murdered deliberately? If you are beset with these mad conspiracy theories you need to get help.
No but I am questioning the response time of the IDF. I think it is a reasonable question as asked repeatedly by news outlet, such as the BBC, including the Israeli press.

• *Where was the IDF intelligence and why did it take so long? All the difficult questions – www.israelhayom.com Your post is a personal attack, which is against the rules on this forum. I will not report you, simply your post is a prime example of "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers."