To wonder how anyone thought what was happening in Gaza was ok?

Lists of names of those killed have been published.
Its very clear to see The PCR and Hamas are being very accurate

With all the constant lies that Israel has been throwing out with
‘no that wasn’t our bomb that was Hamas….oh maybe that was our bomb….oh yes it was but we told everyone to leave so it’s not our fault anyway…’ crap.
No we didn’t drive over those kids
no we don’t target ambulances and constantly do so
no we ll look after all the babies and then leave them to starve to death in hospitals and rot.

Why would anyone believe in the IDF and the Israeli Govn. Why would anyone believe in a country being investigated for war crimes. Crimes that we have all seen ourselves that they vehemently deny and constantly lie about like a spoilt arrogant child throwing their toys out.

So yes we believe the numbers
Put down comments referring to scientific phenomena or all the men have run away, when you can clearly see all the men in news articles trying to find food or dig people out of rubble. Well the few articles there are these days after Israel has banned or killed the journalists.

You’ll never change your operandi Snicket. I’ve read pages and pages and you really don’t care about the murderous rampage and total annihilation of the Palestinian people.
One that has been going on for many many years.

Netanyahu, his far right lackys and all his supporters won’t stop until an entire population has been wiped out and a country made uninhabitable
Shame on all of them
Shame on the lies they tell to justify the massacre of the innocent

Don’t people ever learn !

The above 3 scenarios proposed also omit several other possibilities. Not least the extremely unpleasant one that is: the current military strategic approach not targeting combatants, resulting in a pattern of deaths which is more reflective of the make up of the general population.

I apologise for misunderstanding you and thank you for clarification. I was indeed replying to another post. I have been misinterpret many times and misquoted many times so I am more touchy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864

Here's a BBC article about some of the issues. It's from February so the numbers aren't the same, but the same issues are relevant. It's explanation of the 6,000 figure is that this was provided to Reuters by an official but that it has subsequently been denied. The veracity of that figure is difficult to confirm.

It will also be complicated by factors such as the age of individuals (eg a 15 year old boy could be classed as both child and combatant) and their sex.

Definitions of terms are important. If Hamas is indeed saying 6,000 of its fighters have been killed (which they're not publicly saying, it seems), what is their definition of fighter for that figure? If the IDF are saying they've killed more, what's their definition and how are they verifying that a) an individual is dead and b) that individual was a combatant? The IDF has previously labelled any form of affiliation as membership (realistically, that covers a substantial part of the working population as, as well as being terrorists, Hamas were the 'government', so that definition of membership would potentially cover everyone from a civil servant to a street cleaner).

No wonder peace negotiations don't go well. Mere comments on here are misinterpreted (often), minimised and attributed incorrectly or just changed. Is it a comprehension thing, or ignorance.

I suspect many want echo chambers rather than any comments at all. As others have said no wonder less people engage, its boring.

Will people be happy with just a few posters who ignore some parts of history or events and cherry pick and echo and agree with each other. None of this achieves anything at all. More important things to do than bother with this crap. Obviously I want this to end. Obviously I don't want innocents killed. Obviously I want a new government running Gaza that want peace not the raving mad hamas. Obviously I want both Palestinian people and Israeli people to live life without the fear of attack.

The most parsimonious explanation is likely to be the IDF AI targeting low level Hamas fighters and Hamas-affiliated men once they return home usually bombing the house overnight

This means they are killed with their wives and children giving casualty numbers in line with the general population profile

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes

Well no, they don't vary.

Hamas say they had 40,000 fighters and 6,000 are dead. That's what Hamas themselves say.

So we're left with a situation, at best, where they're asking us to believe that despite there being an equal number of men and women in Gaza, that a man is hugely less likely to be killed.

So either:

Hamas are lying, because saying "Israel killed ALL these people mostly women and children" and actually its NOT mostly women and children😭

Or

There's some scientific phenomenon going on where men in Gaza are impervious to bullets and bombs

Or

The men have run off and left the women and children alone, or are otherwise deliberately doing something to put them in danger

IMHO the least likely of those is the second one.

You took me up wrong I quoted you as form of agreement and to add to what you said not to accuse you of anything

So tell that to the person that did it. I replied to a post comparing it! Have a look rather than accusing me.

These threads are batshit.

I also find it pretty grim and insulting to pull comparisons from a completely different conflict when people from that conflict are still suffering and grieving and peace remains fragile

And it is indeed completely unacceptable to kill civilians, which is why I want Hamas stopped, so they can never do it again

How is it even possible to stop Hamas?

Regardless of the rights n wrongs here, Israel is creating terrorist organisations for decades to come.

Also, why is there no rebuke from you for the civilian deaths of Palestinians? of foreign aid workers?

It all just gets put down, as Netanyahu said as "these things happen in war"

The targeting of the 3 aid vehicles was clearly deliberate, multiple drone strikes, carefully done to ensure no one survived, they even waited for the following (and clearly marked vehicles) vehicles to come in close before striking again and again.

The IDF have a shot to kill policy in Gaza & aid organisations are seen as legitimate targets as they are "helping" the enemy.

How anyone can say this will ensure Israel's future security is crazy, its more likely to see their longer term destruction.

Err…no!
You do know Fatah and Hamas have a completely different ideology
They are not the same
Surely you know this
Its a simple google if you want to learn more, just Google.

Please don’t site Hamas as doing something when it’s very clear they did not.
Now if your example was Hamas, even though the example that you have found is from 2004 I would stand down.

But you have twisted the story for your narrative.

@LemonyTicket thank you for your contributions - I've personally learnt so much from your posts. It helps provide a much clearer picture of the situation from an Israeli perspective and how we shouldn't take democracy for granted.

The quoted figures don't say X number of combatants. They give figures for casualties, which can be split into men, women and children.
Definitions of 'combatant' may vary, so that's not a consistent demographic. For example, 'combatant' could refer to any adult male, or to any male over an arbitrary age neaning some would still be classed as children, or any man or woman holding a weapon, etc etc. Hamas and the IDF likely have different definitions themselves. But 'combatant' is not a separate demographic from men/women/children in that breakdown.

This makes no sense. You're making no distinction between civilians and combatants.

There are 2.1 million people in Gaza. And apparently only 40,000 combatants.

Hamas say 6000 combatants are dead and Israel say 12000.

Even if we go with Hamas' data, you're saying the chances of a civilian man being kille is drastically lower than a civilian woman or child.

Even though there's the same number of men and women.

What possible reason could there be for that?

It's makes absolutely no sense and is clearly not true.

32,975 deaths.
Of which 13,000 are children.
Leaves 19,975 deaths of adults.
Of which 8,000 are women, meaning 11,975 are men.

Which is not far off the population distribution.

How is that statistically possible?

13000 children
8400 women
12,000 combatants

So -1000 civilian men?

Or even if we completely ignore Israel's claim of 12000 dead combatants and go with the terrorists number of 6000 then you're still claiming a child is 3x more likely to gave been killed than a man, and a woman almost twice as likely?

This is simply poppycock, whatever the lancet say this is clearly complete lies! Any logical person must see that.

Based on those figures, there is a closer resemblance to the male:female ratio of the general population than tends to be seen in conflicts.

Usually, when targeting combatants, a greater majority of casualties will be men (potentially also boys in their mid/late teens), because the majority of combatants are usually men. That's not what these figures suggest is happening here.

Well WWII created 15 million orphans. None of which became child suicide bombers 🙄

Err, no, I just read the news. Images included of an example of exactly what I'm talking about. If you care to learn more, just Google :)

I don't lie. Nor do I make stuff up.

The Lancet (a rather reputable medical journal) published an article in December that found close correlation between mortality data in previous conflicts provided by Gaza's health ministry and UN analyses of deaths in the same conflicts. Obviously, if someone's starting point is that they don't believe either source, this probably won't change their mind.

Current figures sit at:

At least 32,975 confirmed deaths.
More than 13,000 of these are children, and 8,400 are women.

More than 75,577 people are documented to have been injured. Those injuries include life-changing injuries such as traumatic amputations and severe burns.

More than 8,000 are missing.

How do you figure this "mostly women and children" line is possibly true?

Even if you believe everything Hamas says (which is insane, but fine) then they're saying:

32000 people have died

Mostly women and children.

That would mean AT LEAST 16,001 of those was a woman or child.

12,000 combatants have been killed.

So that leaves about 4000 civilian men?

So somehow in this conflict a woman or child has a 4x higher chance of being killed as a man?

The population is 50/50 male to female.

How is that statistically possible?

Has Israel got women-seeking missiles? Do Gazan men have Captain Americas magic shield?

I just do not get how people just swallow these lines which not only make no sense but are probably statistically impossible

It's irrelevant what Netanyahu held up on a map. He didn't start a war. Hamas did.

It's infuriating really. These people plan a horrific act of war for years, enact it, live stream themselves doing it, go on TV and say they enjoyed it and plan to do it again and again and that they fully intend to kill all Jews and they've had Israeli hostages in their dungeons for months and your response is "It was always Netenyahus plan to genocide Palestinians"

🤔

It's the most desperate clutching to try and reverse blame. Whatever several Israeli politicians wanted is pretty irrelevant. Because they didn't start the war, or jump into the bodies of the men who committed 7/10 and force them to do it. That was entirely THEIR plan and THEIR decision.

And it is indeed completely unacceptable to kill civilians, which is why I want Hamas stopped, so they can never do it again.

Are you attempting to imply something here?