To wonder how anyone thought what was happening in Gaza was ok?

nobody is buying this propaganda anymore - not even Biden et al! This is the first live streamed genocide in history - the entire world can see what is happening with the evidence of their own eyes. Don’t try and deflect and side track. You aren’t even answering direct questions anymore because you must know in your heart that you are on the wrong side of history.

I think Israel can get to a point where Hamas are crippled. I agree that bombs can’t destroy an ideology. I think jihadism will be around for a very long time - there needs to be some kind of Reformation in the Muslim world before this is no longer a global problem.

I agree with the two-state solution but I don’t think it’s likely any time soon. The leadership in the Palestinian Territories do not care about statehood, they care about Jews living on what they consider to be Islamic lands.

Is it now? Why’s that? I’m genuinely embarrassed for you. You’re really showing yourself up and have now resorted to flinging untrue and scurrilous accusations around because you can’t evidence your nonsense. And btw, are you saying the ICJ who have found plausible grounds for genocide are anti-Semitic. Maybe sit this one out now eh?

Not if they are actually doing it...

Ps: at the point that virtually EVERY human rights organisation and major aid charity is against Israels actions, doesn't it even cross your mind that it might be because they are in the wrong? 😂

We can just agree we have different views
My views are based on fact not Israeli propaganda

It is an anti-Semitic trope to accuse Israel of genocide. I am accusing the IDF and the Israeli government of genocide and no that is not an anti-Semitic trope, why do you think it is?

Euh? i never said they were comparable, though the Nazis would have described the French resistance as genocidal terrorists.

The point is, that Israel cannot "destroy" Hamas, its just another iteration of Palestinian terrorism, which will be reborn either as Hamas 2.0 or another name.

Yes, & Hamas cannot destroy Israel either, the numbers simply aren't on their side, thank you for making my point, even the Nazi's couldn't destroy all Jewish peoples or anyone else for that matter.

Anyone who genuinely cares about the continued long term existence and safety of the state of Israel should be very concerned about what is happening in Gaza.

An example of going round in circles. We can just agree we have different views. It is an anti-Semitic trope to accuse Israel of genocide.

@CaterhamReconstituted ok so if you are only getting your information from Israel and are discounting literally everyone else and every other organisation and nation there is no point in discussing things with you because you are getting one bias view of the situation. Maybe try and do a bit of further reading for yourself and engage in a bit of critical thinking every once in a while

Of course it is collective punishment- genocide even.

What I would like to know from you- is what do you expect to happen for Gaza and the few people left- when this so called 'war' is over? Do you believe in a two-State solution? If not, what do you think should happen to the few people left in Gaza?

The UN is completely compromised. Some members of UNWRA were actually involved in the 7 Oct massacre. The whole ecosystem of human rights organisations are similarly anti-Israel as they have been for many, many decades.

Yesterday I just meant that clearly people have different positions on this and the discussions seems to go around in circles with people maintaining their respective positions.

So much propaganda! Yes and you seem to be falling for a lot of it. Most posters here are getting their information on aid from the UN, WHO, WFP, US, EU and many other nations where are you getting your information on aid from?

But it is false that Israel actually want to starve ordinary people. Why on earth would they want to do that? Yes why? because they are mort certainly doing it

Hamas on the other hand do want to deliberately kill Jews, because hatred of Jews is at the core of their ideology. The Hamas charter is clear that it wants the destruction of Israel and the Jews.
What Hamas want and what Hamas can realistically do are not the same thing. Their charter (words) does not justify killing innocent civilians and children and starving an entire population. If you think it does I would consider you a genocide apologist

@CaterhamReconstituted I appreciate that you didn't want to discuss with me yesterday, but it seems like you're discussing with others today so, could you please explain on what basis you think the UN reporters and representatives, aid agencies and other human rights organisations are wrong?

Hamas is comparable to the French resistance? Really? Hamas are not a resistance force, they are genocidal terrorists. The fact that Israel are militarily superior is the only reason why they haven’t been wiped out. Hamas would do this to the Jews if they could.

Aid is going in though. If the Israelis stop some trucks it is because of security. So much propaganda!

Of course it is terrible, it is war, there is a humanitarian cost to war. But it is false that Israel actually want to starve ordinary people. Why on earth would they want to do that? Hamas on the other hand do want to deliberately kill Jews, because hatred of Jews is at the core of their ideology. The Hamas charter is clear that it wants the destruction of Israel and the Jews.

Israel has a choice, no army, however brutal, has destroyed an ideology, even the Nazis couldn't destroy the French resistance or Tito's resistance fighters in Yugoslavia, neither could the Russians or the USA in Afghanistan, despite overwhelming military might.

Hamas may wish to kill all Israelis but it simply hasn't the means to do so, so using their (Hamas) statements on this as a defence for killing 34k plus (inc 20k children) is simply not valid.

You, i'm afraid, are just trying to justify the unjustifiable.

And that's our own government saying that Israel is the obstacle in allowing in sufficient aid. I'm sure you have read remarks made by David Cameon expressing his frustration at the Israeli government over this

Still not clear on if you’re being deliberately dense or just trying to obfuscate when you know that what you are saying is just rhetoric and empty phrases. Let’s try a different tack - do you see anything wrong at all with what Israel is doing/has done in Gaza? And if not, why do you think the majority of the world now thinks this is the case. Is the entire international community (including Israel’s closest allies) also wrong?

@CaterhamReconstituted withholding and restricting life saving aid is collective punishment

It’s not collective punishment. It is military action against a group that wants to commit genocide against the Jewish people. The choice isn’t easy because there is a terrible price to war but Israel has a right to deal with that threat. Civilians are dying because this is a terrible but unavoidable cost of war in a densely populated area and where Hamas deliberately hide behind their own women and children.

Thanks for your reply.
You are right in saying that you cannot compare Gaza's death toll with others because you are not comparing like for like. When calculating death numbers, you need to take account of how they were counted, how long the war lasted, who was counted ( civilians/military personal), when the count happened and so on.
But It is now wildly recognised that Israel’s military is killing Palestinians at an average rate of 250 people a day, which massively exceeds the daily death toll of any other major conflict of recent years, according to Oxfam.
For comparison, the charity provided a list of average deaths per day in other conflicts since the turn of the century: 96.5 in Syria, 51.6 in Sudan, 50.8 in Iraq, 43.9 in Ukraine, 23.8 in Afghanistan, and 15.8 in Yemen.
This comparison is like for like that it is why I mentioned it.

Why do people keep talking about a war. This is NO war- a war has two sides. There is only one at the moment.

You know what? Stop bleating on about “no
easy choices” blah blah blah. It is easy to make a choice not to impose a famine on a people or simply kill them as a form of collective punishment. And if you believe that these poor people are being “inadvertently” (whoops, sorry!) killed then you are either stupid or it’s more sinister than that and you are spreading this knowing it’s a lie.

It was 4% of the world's population not Germany's population which coupled with Austria lost around 11% of people.

I agree with many of your points and really hope if doesn't go on and for peace fir everyone.

The OP compared them. I showed factual numbers to illustrate that you cannot compare Gaza with The Americas and Aboriginal peoples as she did. Then showed war deaths since Gaza is a war situation. Hth