WTAF - Israeli settlers targeting Gaza beach front properties

I think after October 7th everyone should be “sick of “ Hamas .

This vociferous Israeli woman’s views aside, what do you think about
the all the illegal Israeli settling in the West Bank?

What do you think about Smotrich’s views? He is part of the present government.

31 Dec 2023
“Israel’s Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich has called for Palestinian residents of Gaza to leave the besieged enclave, making way for the Israelis who could “make the desert bloom”.
Smotrich, who has been excluded from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s war cabinet and discussions of day-after arrangements in Gaza, made the comments while speaking to Israeli Army Radio on Sunday”.

“What needs to be done in the Gaza Strip is to encourage emigration,” he said.

Ben-Givr also part of the Israeli Government January 2024:

Israel’s National Security Minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, has again called for the “Occupation of the Gaza Strip” and the emigration of its Palestinians from the besieged Territory, as the Occupation state’s authorities and war cabinet continue to debate the future of Gaza after the ongoing war.

In an interview with Israel’s Channel 13, Ben-Gvir – leader of the far-right Jewish Power (Otzma Yehudit) party – criticised the progress of Israel’s war on the Gaza Strip and urged for more to be done to “bring about a resolution”. He stated that the Israeli forces themselves “are doing an excellent job”, but that the ruling coalition and cabinet “must give them support to resolve it”.

The resolution Ben-Gvir referred to was clarified when he further stated that “Gaza must be occupied. Stay inside it and encourage the voluntary migration of its residents. If we win the war, it will be practically accomplished”.

………….by slaughtering thousands and razing their homes and infrastructure to the ground?

And the other point, that after 18 years Israel is sick of Hamas, after subjugating Palestinians for decades?

I think “comedy character “ suggested that no one in Israel takes her seriously . She is not representative of Israelis and shouldn’t be treated as if she is.

So Israel is sick of Hamas’ nonsense after just 18 years.
How do you suppose Palestinians feel after decades of Israel’s nonsense?

The woman is a comedy character? You find her funny?

I think I watched a Louis Theroux on this woman about a decade ago. She's a comedy character.

I find it so telling that people wheel this out.

The fact is, Hamas, who started the war have been very clear on their intention: kill all the Jew, conquer Israel and indeed set up home on it's beaches.

That's a pretty clear statement of intent, followed through with all their actions - from committing 7/10 to arresting their own citizens for attempting peace talks with Israelis.

What this ridiculous woman thinks isn't really relevant - it's never been Israeli policy to take over Gaza. They removed themselves voluntarily from Gaza. I'd imagine though, after 18 years of Hamas they are pretty sick of their nonsense now.

Dutch government

@AdamRyan they are never going to. The ICJ made it clear years ago that they were illegal and the UN has passed several resolutions over decades addressing this. There is near enough unanimous agreement about the settlements in the international community, and yet for decades Israel has continued to argue that they’re not illegal.

Message deleted for saying the obvious truth.

@HeidiInTheBigCity We are going to have to agree to disagree. It doesn’t even need saying that in terms of harm caused there is no comparison. That does not give the media license to be thoughtless.

If articles like this were the only way to explore the damage that these individuals are causing then you would have a point. However, this is not the case. As an example, focusing on the impact this is having on Palestinian communities would imo be more impactful than what is essentially a profile on this “shocking” (but not really, because tens of thousands of people have died and over 1 million are deliberately at risk of famine so obviously there are people who think like this who wield considerable power) woman. There is a clear difference in approach between the BBC article on the FT one. Both talk about her, neither lets her off the hook, but the latter I think does so in a more responsible way.

But how is this NOT saying "the potential harm that might come to a hypothetical grandma is as important - if not more so - than the actual harm done by that actual grandma (who just so happens to be, basically, a vile, hardline fascist)?"

Personally, I'd rather deal with the hassle of potentially having to rally support for innocent hypothetical grandma [which is something I have power over and experience with] than let actual fascist grandma off the hook in case she accidentally paints someone innocent in a bad light [which, in any case, is on her, not on me]!

@HeidiInTheBigCity In an ideal world, all of this. Of course no one should really be having to do mental gymnastics about how they call her out. The reality, however, is that this is not how fighting prejudice works.

The moment they start equating this woman to every Jewish grandma out there, talking about her cake, popcorn and the dining room as a backdrop to her murderous conversations it’s game over. It becomes more likely that other people are going to be abused because of her. You can shout that rationally it is unreasonable to blame other people for her actions until you are blue in the face, it will not stop this from happening.

This is just a sidenote though. I do agree with OP’s point but they are never going to do that because as we’ve seen in the last month, they themselves are stealing more land and approving settlements.

I wonder how many brits have illegal holiday homes out there, it should not be allowed

I think you misunderstand me: I am saying, precisely, what you are saying:

People like her DO exist, and they HAVE GOT TO BE shown for what they are!

When I say "there are better ways" what I mean is: "we must not shy away from showing the likes of her for what they are: racists, Jewish supremacists, fascists! - and if some arsehole somewhere [which, let's be honest: that does happen!] takes her to be "but Jews, though ...": the correct answer is not to pretend that she and her ilk aren't fascist monsters - because they are! But to demonstrate that "being a fascist monster" is not exclusive to any particular group.

Danielle Weiss is a Jewish supremacist monster. And she - and her ilk, and the people who represent them (including her government) need to be called out for what they are: racist, supremacist, fascist monsters!

It's just that: NONE of this justifies anti-semitism. And when I say "there are better ways" I, literally, mean "shouting 'go fuck yourself, you fascist fuck [preferably ... insert stuff that would get me perma-banned]' at anyone like Daniella Weiss - but also: at anyone who hates her not because she is a racist, fascist POS [which she is - hate her as much as you want for everything she is] but because she's a 'specifically Jewish' such".

When I say "better ways" I mean: I have the great privilege of knowing plenty of utterly decent Jewish folks who are not genocidal arseholes. Some are anti-zionists, some on the fence, some even zionists - we disagree up to the point of "just descending into a shouting match". But they're not genocidal. And I'm not genocidal. Danielle Weiss is. And we should be fighting the likes of her by amplifying the voices of "people I yell at - but they're not genocidal", not by pretending the likes of her don't exist [which is what I took the post I originally responded to to insinuate].

60,000 West Bank settlers and 100,000 settlers from East Jerusalem are US citizens so they have no need to be stealing land from Palestinians.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/15/biden-extremist-jewish-settlers-travel-ban-loophole#:~:text=Americans%20account%20for%20only%20about,their%20influence%20outweighs%20their%20numbers.

there are better, other, ways combat this than to pretend people like her are not actually happening!

Settlers regularly attack and murder Palestinian civilians, so in my mind it’s not possible to pretend that people like her do not exist, but I get your overall point.

I actually think that this is an example of a better article https://www.ft.com/content/8a6a3e01-0f92-4541-9b90-c19e6fd030d4

I’m not sure I can articulate it well. Yes, she’s given airtime and shes mentioned by name, but there’s more of a focus on her role as a leader

I understand this point of view. I’m not saying this from the perspective that she should be protected from the consequences of what she’s saying in any way. The Israeli government is not subtle in their support for these settlements and there absolutely should be criticism for that. However, look at the way that they’re describing her.

Before she is the head of an extremist organisation they are portraying her as the ordinary grandma. That will have consequences for other people, some of which may be dangerous and writers should be mindful of that.

I don't agree. She should be heard, she's not just a powerless crackpot shouting out vile obscenities she is actively helping people with illegal settlements, and seeking out sites and assisting in robbing homes and land. The fact that she is so vocal and visible with these actions demonstrates how little the Israeli government do to deter illegal settlements, saying they don't support them is obviously just words. These people are breaking the law but there are no consequences

And the odious kushner was on a podcast thing recently musing about the value of these waterfront properties whilst suggesting the Palestinians could be left in a desert somewhere. Absolute sickness. Don’t think this is some nutter who shouldn’t be given any airtime. Clearly more people that’s you would like to think have thoughts along the same line. Btw. - no mention of the UN resolution of today anywhere on the daily mail!!

She is vile (I actually had the "privilege" of running into her and her mob once, a long, long time ago, not a memory I cherish!) - but I do think she should be heard!

And I do think she must be heard precisely because she is so vile!

I do see where you are coming from in terms of her "serving as ammunition" - but there are better, other, ways combat this than to pretend people like her are not actually happening!

"The XY government has decided ..." does absolutely nothing to convey the vile, racist, supremacist horror that are settlers! In that sense: not showing ghouls like her serves to downplay how extreme, how racist, how fascist, and just how completely horrortastic these people really are!

Hi @mnhq I've just read the guidelines and really don't understand which guideline was broken in my post. Could you let me know please?