Christians in Jerusalem

Im not a christian either but I imagine it varies for different denominations - partly why I was trying to unpick the wider context & who we mean by Christian in Israel. I imagine some of the more ancient christians would have a different relationship with the holy sites to some strands of Protestant who might have a different history of persecution & exile, quite apart from different approaches to physical things & ideas of idolatry etc.

Are you Christian? I’m only asking because as I said being from a minority group myself we’ve always focused on the violence and murder bit. We don’t even have access to some of our most holy sites. We can’t even visit. This is not as important as men women and children being murdered to us. We don’t even really talk about those sites generally. Not because they aren’t important but because it is what it is.

If as a Christian you are saying that the persecution is having a global impact on Christians I won’t argue with you. I just feel it doesn’t reflect how my minority group measures things. I don’t know, I mean Jewish people were definitely persecuted in Jerusalem, I’m not sure they would say it’s worse experiencing harassment than say pograms against them in other countries. I don’t know I’m not Jewish or Christian. I can only talk about how we see it.

I don’t think it’s whataboutery as such, If someone said to me “oh it’s terrible that your group are experiencing persecution in this X” and I said “yeah but they are killing us in y” and then they proceeded to tell me it’s worse in X because of the religious significance of X I wouldn’t agree really. Again I can’t speak for Christians. I can only talk about how my people would feel about it.

As a general point it's worth noting that most Israeli Christians don't live in Jerusalem (though East Jerusalemites without citizenship would be counted separately). Most of them live in the North. Nazareth (the Hebrew word for Christians, Notzrim, comes from Nazareth), Haifa, Acco, Nov HaGalil.

Non-Arab christians (who comprise various groups) are more likely to live in the centre of the country, and also includes guest workers (especially Filipinos) and people from the FSU who immigrated through family ties.

Indeed, I agree hence why quite a few of us have challenged the need to shut down the conversation around persecution of Christians in the middle east in general. The agenda to shut down is bizarre.

This is why all areas in the middle east where persecution of Christians are matter.

😥 this is the point why not just talking about in Israel matters

Jerusalem is the most holy city for Christians. Their persecution there has a global impact. It is terrifying Israeli Christians, detrimental to Israelis in general and has increased under Netanyahu's government. This is not an anti-jewish thread. It's not an anti-Israel thread. Israelis are suffering under Netanyahu, all of them apart from the far right.

Anyone who wants to post a thread about the persecution of Christians worldwide is welcome to start one. The whataboutery on this thread is derailing.

I agree.

It is not that persecutions everywhere don’t matter, but as another poster pointed out they are not the centre of the Holy Land, the city where Jesus died and the birthplace of Christianity.

I’ve seen this said earlier, but I just don’t see the relevance.

Is persecution for Christians in the Holy Land worse than persecution for Christians anywhere else, especially where they face death as opposed to what is described in the article the OP posted?

The OP has, quite rightly, been challenged - this seems like a poor attempt at justification.

That doesn’t mean that I think persecution of Christians in Jerusalem should be ignored, I’m specifically referring to the bit about it being holy land.

I’m glad it’s been raised though, I hope action is taken to protect those groups and it does sound like some people are paying attention at the very least.

I think the thing is that there are many places which have ancient Christian roots, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey etc. These are truly old communities. I’m not sure that being on holy land make it any better or worse tbh. I’m from a minority and my people have been persecuted (killed) both where our roots are and elsewhere. It wasn’t any worse or any better because it was here or there. The destruction of religiously significant sites is definitely painful for believers because they can’t be replaced.

But intolerance vs murder? When you are already a very small community loss of life will always be more important than anything else. It is sad when your community is driven from it’s “home” for want of a better word, but when the congregation are murdered or “disappeared” that’s infinitely worse. People, humans matter.

@ScrollingLeaves Agreed, the longer those factions hold any power in government, the worse it gets. Here's hoping they'll be reduced to irrelevance in the next election. They're destroyers not builders, which goes against everything Jerusalem should stand for in my view.

It is not that persecutions everywhere don’t matter, but as another poster pointed out they are not the centre of the Holy Land, the city where Jesus died and the birthplace of Christianity.

It is true that other countries in the Middle East in general are far worse for Christians than Israel is, to the extent that Christians from those regions may be asylum seekers, but now there seems to be a turn for the worse in Israel.

What is happening in Jerusalem now is also linked to the climate of impunity for the more right wing extreme nationalist Jewish Israelis which has been created by certain members of the present government. This faction is causing so many problems generally, not just for Christians.

Did you happen to notice any posters criticising the extremist Israeli settlers and agreeing that the Palestinian Christian Kisiya family have been terribly mistreated? Just above your post, can't miss it.

Exactly we all agree that settlers removal of Christians from land is wrong. Do people just arrive at the thread, not read the discussion and then make a random comment that isn't based on fact.

Exactly, it appears not.

@MissyB1 literally the post above yours was a criticism of Israeli settlers. What their wasn't was generalises hand wringing about how evil Israel is, but a wider discussion of issues facing christians and various specific cases of harassment of Christians.

That rubbish and you know it.

Israel has done many things wrong but doesn't operate in isolation as the only place where Christian people are having a tough time. Just the only place that is deemed worthy of criticism.

The settler community treating Christians badly is wrong and should be condemned. Also other treatment of Christians in the middle east should also be condemned. Have a read through comments where people are questioning why only criticism of Israel. Any answer to why only Israel and no criticism of other mistreatment of Christians in the entire middle east 🤔

Hopefully over time there will be more people who will look for peace and be willing to give something up for it than people who want it all and are willing to fight until they get it.

🙏

Have you read the actual posts in this thread?

I don’t think you have very good reading comprehension, we’ve just been discussing the case of a Christian family chucked off their land. But caring about Christians being persecuted everywhere should be fine too.

@Silence1
so who are the pro settler community on here you mentioned. Back up your claim and name these posters. I'm not pro settler. There are very few posting so are they mythical posters? 🙄

Well the derailers and silencers chased the OP away from her thread because not one word of criticism of Israel will be tolerated. what a surprise.

Yeah I know, settlers are a stain on Israel imo (I imagine there are plenty of Jewish people who feel the same way). I want to see a two state solution but these people and the extremists on the Palestinian side are part of the same problem. I sometimes think it’s never going to be resolved. Hopefully over time there will be more people who will look for peace and be willing to give something up for it than people who want it all and are willing to fight until they get it.

It's the usual chucking out comments that aren't true. It's bizarre. It doesn't happen. Maybe there is a parallel universe mn (in their head) where it does? It doesn't happen on here. Looks silly when its suggested and its false.

No thanks.