Christians in Jerusalem

I agree it is interesting to see that list, and that Christians have been safer under Israel than those predominantly Muslim countries.

Isn’t the point being discussed in this thread, that it would be wrong if the Christians remaining in Israel/Palestine were now to be driven out by Israeli extremist, nationalist settlers after 2000 years, while this present government with its similarly right wing extremism faction having too much power, allows this harassment of and theft from Christians?

Challenging posts is what a chat forum is all about. Some people don't like it and would happily shut down wider discussions which helps no one really.

I tend to agree with this assessment to. Sadly the mistreatment of Palestinian people by settlers is a massive problem.

I agree with you it is over dramatic by that poster to suggest freedom of speech is curtailed seeing the number and range of comments rather than the usual small number of posters nodding along.

Thank you for that analysis of freedom to practice (Christianity) alongside many middle Eastern countries. That's really interesting.

Are you saying the conditions for Christians in Jerusalem at the hands of Israeli settler extremists cannot be discussed within its own context because other Muslim countries go further and kill Christians?

And that because other Middle Eastern sites are also historically Christian, the thinking that regards Jerusalem as being particularly sacred to Christianity is spurious?

Those who sing Christmas carols in a few months will not be thinking of Mary and Joseph and baby Jesus in Iran.

What would be outrageous about criticising or highlighting issues of antisemitism and Islamophobia in the UK, and considering local factors contributing to those issues?

https://www.churchinneed.org/church-continues-to-serve-struggling-families-in-the-holy-land/

The actions of extremist settlers who terrorise Palestinians ( of whatever religion) are unacceptable. But a greater proportion of the Palestinian suffering ( Muslim and Christian alike) should be laid at the door of Hamas .

I agree that the treatment of the Kisiya family is wrong.
The diminishing population of Christians in the Holy Land has long been a concern and there are many reasons for this.
I support charities that provide help to Palestinian Christians. I just don’t want this conflict to be painted as one of Jew vs Christian and Muslim.
I think it is Israeli vs Palestinian ( and that is bad enough heaven knows)

@Limesodaagain That's your take but for the people involved :

"Ms Kisiya said that Al-Makhrour was one of the majority-Christian areas of the West Bank, and that the campaign to protect the land for Palestinian habitation was “about the protection we ask for the Christians of Bethlehem”."

"The Dean of St George’s College, Jerusalem, the Very Revd Canon Richard Sewell, who attended the march, said this week that the “cry of the Kisiya family must be heard”, and that the family “must be restored to what is theirs by legal right”.

If the Kisiya family were not protected, “all Christians become more vulnerable,” he said. “Imagine the day when there may be no Christians left in the birthplace of Jesus Christ.”"

the reason this family have been evicted/ mistreated is not in account of their Christianity but more to do with their ethnicity (Palestinian) . The thread title seems to suggest this family have been targeted because of their religion. I think it’s an attempt to paint Israel as being anti Christianity and I think that’s an unhelpful contribution in an inflammatory situation.
edited to add - the mistreatment of Palestinians in Jerusalem is obviously wrong but it is misleading to suggest it’s on account of their Christian religion.

Interesting article by Sam Stein . The Palestinian Christians are also Israeli citizens and their house was demolished by the IDF in 2019.
When I see the photos of the family fronting up the IDF I think they are so incredibly brave like many other evicted Palestinians. We know the IDF shot the peaceful American protester in the head. Another "accident" and I recall the video of a settler shooting an unarmed Palestinian in the stomach with an IDF soldier standing there doing nothing.
I am glad to hear people oppose it but in Israel it appears just words without meaning: settler violence has been escalating along side more attacks on Christians for several years now
Same BS as the USA they say settlers are terrible and then Kamala Harris hosts the first known Passover Seder at the Vice President residence and she pops illegal settler wine on the table. Of course heralded in the Israeli press.

"With most legal disputes between Palestinians and Israelis in the West Bank, there is a de jure imbalance. Israelis enjoy the liberties of Israeli civil law while Palestinians are subject to military law; since members of the Kisiya family are Israeli citizens, they fall under the former. The legal proceedings between the Kisiya family and the settlers claiming the land should, theoretically, take place on equal footing. "
In the West Bank, Even Israeli Citizens Are Being Evicted by Illegal Settlers - Progressive.org

But here, Israel aren’t doing “something bad”.

The increase in religious hatred towards Christians described here is the same as the increase in religious hatred being experienced by Jewish people and Muslims globally since 7 October.

It would be outrageous to say the U.K. is doing “something bad” because of the rise of antisemitism and Islamophobia since October 7. Nor could that conversation ever been focused solely on the U.K. as it is happening globally.

Thank you, this is such a helpful and relevant contribution to the thread topic.

It is a sad state of affairs when freedom of speech is curtailed this way.
It's incorrect and a bit overdramatic to state that a discussion not going the way you want it to is freedom of speech being curtailed. No-one's been prevented from saying their piece, nor are they in any danger for doing so.

The report was interesting and acknowledges the recent rise in harassment of Christians and vandalism of Christian sites. In the context of this thread, it's also helpful to focus on the question of religious freedom with regards to how Israel scored compared to their immediate neighbours:
D4 (0-4 points) Are individuals free to practice and express their religious faith or nonbelief in public and private?
Israel 3/4
Jordan 2/4
Lebanon 3/4
Egypt 1/4
Gaza 1/4
Syria 2/4
West Bank 2/4

As usual it's the same old:

Person 1 "Israel are doing something bad"

Person 2 "Ooh, why you picking on Israel? Why didn't you look over there, or there, or over there" and points to some third world countries or countries that are not so called democracies or that are labelled as 'the beacon of fairness and democracy in the middle east'.

Classic deflection and whataboutery.

Your freedom of speech isn't being curtailed by people disagreeing with you. 😂

I think there are many valid criticisms that can be made about Israel . I think the spitting of Christians by extremists in Jerusalem is abhorrent but pales into insignificance in the context of what is going on in Israel and Gaza - and the much much more brutal treatment of Christians elsewhere
The title of this thread suggests a concern about the mistreatment of Christians but the insistence that we can only explore Jewish mistreatment of Christians suggests the motivation is to “bash Jews” rather than show concern for Christians .

I feel strongly about persecution of Christians across the globe. I don’t think it’s right to focus specifically on the poor treatment of Christians in one place while ignoring the far more shocking and brutal wider picture.
There are places where the treatment of Christians is truly horrific. If you’re truly concerned about the brutal persecution of Christians your first reference certainly wouldn’t be Jerusalem ( although I’m certainly not condoning the behaviour of extremists who spit at Christians)

Freedom of speech isn't being curtailed. People are merely pointing out the persecution of Christians throughout the middle east.

Freedom of speech is curtailed when OP and @Auvergne63 say we cannot talk about that!

People have condemned settler violence towards Christians on this thread and elsewhere as is right to do so. Strange that others would not have us discuss and condemned that throughout the Middle East as well 🤔

It's all wrong, it's all awful.

Absolutely

This is my last contribution to this thread. I will not take part anymore for the same reason as the OP. It is a sad state of affairs when freedom of speech is curtailed this way.
I will leave you with this report.
Israel: Freedom in the World 2024 Country Report | Freedom House

Im a person with an enquiring mind trying to understand something?! Why are you 'delegitimising' Filipinos by calling them 'mere'? This is quite weird.

Nobody said their was no danger for Christians. Not one person even implied that. Many posters have commented on the fact that its wrong that Christians have seen an increase in persecution & posted other links. I don't think there is anything wrong in trying to establish facts is there? Christians in Israel is quite complicated - there is such diversity & some of the posts have been really helpful in explaining that.

Can you point us to where Christians have been murdered in their churches in Jerusalem? The Rossing report had 2 attacks on property and 7 physical attacks (hitting/spitting) in 2023.

The whataboutery, 'picking apart' and and blatant 'I wouldn't call it danger' is absolutely shocking and only serves to minimize the christian struggle in Jerusalem, the most holy site. We all know there is no need at all to 'widen the context', the point is that christians are being driven out, spat on, having their land confiscated, being murdered in their own churches, and yet posters feel the need to ascertain what denomination they are or what country they really are from? And at the same time saying that mentioning this struggle is just another jew bashing thread. Utter abhorrent.