Standing up for Israel

I'm relieved to know that 2 people whose posts I have read and respected have felt able to say that isn't the case for them.

To people actually facing this on a daily basis, it does actually mean something to see someone say that is not what they believe.

There was no test. Just a simple question, asking whether when people say they stand for Israel, is that what it means for them?

It has seemed to be a commonly encountered view on the streets of my area and on some channels of social media. I was interested in whether that is what it means to people posting on this board.

This

They'd be straight on it

Imagine the abuse if a pro Palestine poster refused to condemn Hamas as demanded.

This place is wild 😂

Thank you, it is helpful to hear someone say that isn't what standing with Israel means to them.

What are your views?

I stand with Israel, but EVERY child's death or injury (physical, mental, emotional) in Gaza is a tragedy, and I do not stand with indiscriminate killing of children, nor with a stance that calls for the erasure of an entire people, or dehumanising language, like 'human animals'. If a workable proposal was put on the table today, that would give all of us, Israelis and Palestinians, a way to create mutual peace and prosperity, an end to death and destruction on both sides, a way for both people to thrive, I promise, this would be beyond anything to me. From the depths of my heart I can say I truly have zero desire for revenge for October 7th, or for the eradication of Palestinians, I want peace. I want Hamas gone, I won't lie, but no, I don't wish for harm to any innocents.

It feels like the silence says a lot here, which is sad.

Excellently articulated, a thousand thank yous.👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

This article posted yesterday, goes through these forms of denial.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v46/n02/conor-gearty/short-cuts

I completely second everything @Scirocco,@whatsitcalledwhen & @Desertrose2023 has said. To echo what another poster said, the hypocrisy is glaring.

Supporters of Israel on this board never ever condemn what Israel is doing. At best you get “oh the humanitarian situation is awful” or “I don’t like/ approve of Netanyahu” but actual condemnation of Israel’s actions including some of the reprehensible behaviours of its military? Never. the blame only lies with Hamas as if Israel has no accountability, independent agency or control over the choices it makes with respect of how it conducts itself. They are the regular posters on this board who display casual Islamophobia, who regularly describe others as “useful idiots”, “fuckwits” or “frothing antisemites”, “Hamas supporters” just for expressing strong opinions that was Israel is doing to Palestinians is both legally and morally wrong, and then claim they are the ones being victimized.

and I would also sincerely like to know who you are referring to as a Hamas supporter @quantumbutterfly ? You imply there are several on the board. If you are making an allegation as serious as calling people terrorist supporters then you need to either put up and name them with evidence to support that statement - or frankly - keep quiet.

Many, many of us have absolutely condemned Hamas and agreed they are terrorists while also expressing disbelief and horror at the way that Palestinian civilians are being treated by the Israeli government and the IDF.

Please could somebody tell me that when they say they stand with Israel, they don't also mean standing with the views in that video?

This. I'm more than comfortable saying 'I stand by the people of Palestine and utterly condemn the actions of Hamas' and I don't understand why it seems impossible for people who say they stand by Israel to do the same?

It shouldn't be controversial or difficult to be a supporter of the Israeli people and to also condemn the words said in the clip shared earlier.

Please could somebody tell me that when they say they stand with Israel, they don't also mean standing with the views in that video?

I really would like to believe that people don't, but after yet another experience where it's been made very clear to me that some people do agree with those views, I'm honestly feeling quite shaken in my hopes there.

These are things people tell me they do believe. I'd really like to hear somebody, somewhere tell me that that isn't what standing with Israel means to them, because at the moment, when people say to me that they stand with Israel, they're frequently following it up with those views.

Prove your worth? @stomachamelon Oh please.

It is laughable actually, you're right. You're well able to demand that pro-Palestinians condemn Hamas at every opportunity, and when asked to do so, we do.

Being asked to condemn Hamas quickly became a meme it was so omnipresent as a feature of the conflict.

But you won't condemn what Israel is doing? I previously asked you on another thread if you condemned leaving the premature babies to die on their own in al Shifa hospital and you didn't respond.

I can't get my head around that. I really can't.

12000 children killed and you still can't do it.

Yes, let's stand up for Israel while it slaughters tens of thousands of children and deliberately starves millions more. Sounds like a reasonable thing to do.

I'm just hoping some day one of you will surprise me and condemn what's happening. If you want to call it something other than genocide that's fine I guess, if you can't admit that it's genocide. It's still fucked up and evil beyond belief. I guess I just find it hard to understand why you don't see that.

Bit one sided though, are the accusatory posters analysing and decrying the hamas supporters comments with equal energy.

I think that it would be quite powerful on a thread called 'standing up for Israel' if posters condemned the words in the video @LilaDidIt shared.

It would make it clear that standing with the people of Israel doesn't mean blindly believing everything the government says or agreeing with all the actions of the IDF.

So I don't think it's as irrelevant or hostile as some posters are suggesting.

On some level it's an opportunity to find common ground and say that the rhetoric used by the people in that video is absolutely unacceptable and (hopefully) they don't reflect the feelings of posters standing up for Israel on this board.

I typed that before I read your response btw, that's how predictable these comments are.