Standing up for Israel

I think it's important for both sides of the debate to take a step back and look at the very real issue of genocide.

Palestinians are currently experiencing a genocide. Innocent people (many of whom are children) are being murdered by the thousands. They are being bombed in what should be safe places: family homes, hospitals, schools, mosques. This genocide is happening for a myriad of reasons, including (but not limited to) religion, land, money, racism, and historical wars.

The fact that the undemocratically elected Palestinian leadership (Hamas) has hidden themselves underground and amongst civilians is not only a war crime in itself (use of human shields), but it is demonstrating that the leadership values it's own power more than the lives of it's constituents. Not even the Palestinians' own government is willing to stop the genocide being faced. The genocide being forced onto Palestinians by the Israeli government.

On the other hand, we have Israelis who are not currently experiencing a genocide. It is crucial to note that most Israeli citizens did not vote in Likud which is a coalition and do not support their current government. The vast majority of Israelis also do not have a choice about joining the IDF, as Israel mandates conscription for men and women and puts soldiers who have left the IDF in reserve. Those IDF soldiers currently in Gaza being accused of perpetuating a genocide may well not even support the war they have been told they must fight.

It's all well and good to say that Israel should just clear out of Gaza, stop the occupation, and ceasefire. This would be ideal, and I think any reasonable person does not want any civilian death, let alone the tens of thousands experienced by Palestinians. But if Israel stands down, the genocide will simply change targets.

Without removing Hamas from power in Palestine, Israel (along with Jewish people worldwide) will experience a genocide of their own. This is in Hamas' original charter, which has since been updated to remove "Jews", but Israel's eradication is still very much present. I use quotations on "Jews" because various Hamas leaders have been quoted as recently as 2023 that their goal is to murder all Jews. While Hamas doesn't have the power on it's own to commit a genocide, it has the support of other terrorist organisations in Iran, Lebanon, Syria, and many more. Together, there is a very real threat to all Israelis and Jewish people.

I don't think anybody (who has posted on these threads) actually wishes for the deaths of Palestinian or Israeli people. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding, a lot of missing information, and a lot of misplaced anger.

Just my two cents.

I think it's important for both sides of the debate to take a step back and look at the very real issue of genocide.

Palestinians are currently experiencing a genocide. Innocent people (many of whom are children) are being murdered by the thousands. They are being bombed in what should be safe places: family homes, hospitals, schools, mosques. This genocide is happening for a myriad of reasons, including (but not limited to) religion, land, money, racism, and historical wars.

The fact that the undemocratically elected Palestinian leadership (Hamas) has hidden themselves underground and amongst civilians is not only a war crime in itself (use of human shields), but it is demonstrating that the leadership values it's own power more than the lives of it's constituents. Not even the Palestinians' own government is willing to stop the genocide being faced. The genocide being forced onto Palestinians by the Israeli government.

On the other hand, we have Israelis who are not currently experiencing a genocide. It is crucial to note that most Israeli citizens did not vote in Likud which is a coalition and do not support their current government. The vast majority of Israelis also do not have a choice about joining the IDF, as Israel mandates conscription for men and women and puts soldiers who have left the IDF in reserve. Those IDF soldiers currently in Gaza being accused of perpetuating a genocide may well not even support the war they have been told they must fight.

It's all well and good to say that Israel should just clear out of Gaza, stop the occupation, and ceasefire. This would be ideal, and I think any reasonable person does not want any civilian death, let alone the tens of thousands experienced by Palestinians. But if Israel stands down, the genocide will simply change targets.

Without removing Hamas from power in Palestine, Israel (along with Jewish people worldwide) will experience a genocide of their own. This is in Hamas' original charter, which has since been updated to remove "Jews", but Israel's eradication is still very much present. I use quotations on "Jews" because various Hamas leaders have been quoted as recently as 2023 that their goal is to murder all Jews. While Hamas doesn't have the power on it's own to commit a genocide, it has the support of other terrorist organisations in Iran, Lebanon, Syria, and many more. Together, there is a very real threat to all Israelis and Jewish people.

I don't think anybody (who has posted on these threads) actually wishes for the deaths of Palestinian or Israeli people. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding, a lot of missing information, and a lot of misplaced anger.

Just my two cents.

I think it's important for both sides of the debate to take a step back and look at the very real issue of genocide.

Palestinians are currently experiencing a genocide. Innocent people (many of whom are children) are being murdered by the thousands. They are being bombed in what should be safe places: family homes, hospitals, schools, mosques. This genocide is happening for a myriad of reasons, including (but not limited to) religion, land, money, racism, and historical wars.

The fact that the undemocratically elected Palestinian leadership (Hamas) has hidden themselves underground and amongst civilians is not only a war crime in itself (use of human shields), but it is demonstrating that the leadership values it's own power more than the lives of it's constituents. Not even the Palestinians' own government is willing to stop the genocide being faced. The genocide being forced onto Palestinians by the Israeli government.

On the other hand, we have Israelis who are not currently experiencing a genocide. It is crucial to note that most Israeli citizens did not vote in Likud which is a coalition and do not support their current government. The vast majority of Israelis also do not have a choice about joining the IDF, as Israel mandates conscription for men and women and puts soldiers who have left the IDF in reserve. Those IDF soldiers currently in Gaza being accused of perpetuating a genocide may well not even support the war they have been told they must fight.

It's all well and good to say that Israel should just clear out of Gaza, stop the occupation, and ceasefire. This would be ideal, and I think any reasonable person does not want any civilian death, let alone the tens of thousands experienced by Palestinians. But if Israel stands down, the genocide will simply change targets.

Without removing Hamas from power in Palestine, Israel (along with Jewish people worldwide) will experience a genocide of their own. This is in Hamas' original charter, which has since been updated to remove "Jews", but Israel's eradication is still very much present. I use quotations on "Jews" because various Hamas leaders have been quoted as recently as 2023 that their goal is to murder all Jews. While Hamas doesn't have the power on it's own to commit a genocide, it has the support of other terrorist organisations in Iran, Lebanon, Syria, and many more. Together, there is a very real threat to all Israelis and Jewish people.

I don't think anybody (who has posted on these threads) actually wishes for the deaths of Palestinian or Israeli people. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding, a lot of missing information, and a lot of misplaced anger.

Just my two cents.

The bombing and fighting in Gaza could stop, the aid could restart, the rebuilding could begin
...or was that not the point of all the hand wringing and chest beating on these threads.... was it just looking for a better reason to label Israelis as monsters.

For those with the wit to understand them yes.

So the hand wringing horror about this war was just a ruse. Shame on you.

It's extremely short sighted to say "it could all stop tomorrow if..." The conflict did not begin on Oct 7th. The Israeli government have been oppressing the Palestinians since the inception of Israel.

The bombing and fighting in Gaza could stop, the aid could restart, the rebuilding could begin
...or was that not the point of all the hand wringing and chest beating on these threads.... was it just looking for a better reason to label Israelis as monsters.

Obviously the end of the war will mean the end of civilian deaths as you say but it will not bring about the end of hostility between the two groups.

As I said before it would not change anything in the West Bank and the current government in Israel needs to go as well as Hamas.

The bombing and fighting in Gaza could stop, the aid could restart, the rebuilding could begin
...or was that not the point of all the hand wringing and chest beating on these threads.... was it just looking for a better reason to label Israelis as monsters.

While I see antagonistic crowds gathering in the UK weekly, holding banners calling 7/10 resistance,ripping down posters of kidnapped children, calling for global intifada.....
I stand with Israel and the Jewish community in the UK. Never again is now.

Like all peace loving people I feel horror at this situation, it could stop today with hostage release & hamas laying down their arms.