Standing up for Israel

Neither do they.

@ProfessorPipsqueak "Yet they are still there and manage to kill more people than Israelis killed every year. Maybe Israel needs to take stock and look at who the threat really is."

I've not a clue what you're talking about?

Yet they are still there and manage to kill more people than Israelis killed every year. Maybe Israel needs to take stock and look at who the threat really is.

So what state of Israel should exist?

The present day Israel should not exist. The State os Israel had clear borders- since then, illegal expansion has been taking place, with huge amounts of Palestinian land being taken and settled - ILLEGALLY

@ProfessorPipsqueak Israels existence is not in anyway threatened

Whaaat?

They are surrounded by terrorist groups some firing rockets and other armaments at them.

Hezbollah in Lebanon.
Aim to accrue military resources and political power and defend its position of strength in Lebanon; wants to expel Western influence from Lebanon and the greater Middle East, destroy the state of Israel, and establish Islamic rule in Lebanon and the Palestinian territories

Hamas in Gaza (and now recruiting in the West Bank.)
Want to maintain control of the Gaza Strip to facilitate Palestinian nationalist aims; the group’s charter calls for establishing an Islamic Palestinian state in place of Israel and rejects all agreements made between the Palestine Liberation Organization and Israel

Army of Islam (Gaza)
Has a history of conducting rocket attacks against Israel, kidnapping civilians, and attacking Christians; conducted a bombing attack on a Coptic Christian church in Egypt in 2011 that killed 25 and wounded 100, probably has conducted joint attacks with IS-SP against Egyptian security service personnel;

Isis Sinai Province.
Aim to spread the Islamic caliphate by eliminating the Egyptian government, destroying Israel, and establishing an Islamic emirate in the Sinai

Palestine Islamic Jihad
Committed to the destruction of Israel and to the creation of an Islamic state in historic Palestine, an area that covers present-day Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank

I'm not Hamas, I don't know but quick Google says Hamas officials said shortly following the attack that it was a response to the Israeli occupation, blockade of the Gaza Strip, Israeli settler violence against Palestinians, restrictions on the movement of Palestinians, and imprisonment of thousands of Palestinians.

@ChickHenLittle Yes I remember being told that these claims were hysterical and ridiculous. Well here we are today and I didnt see Netanyahu criticising that almost a third of ministers attended this conference. Infact all he said was they are entitled to their opinions.

@quantumbutterfly whilst Netanyahu has said he does not intend to rebuild settlements in Gaza, he is not exactly trustworthy and the recent actions of ministers are concerning to say the least. And these concerns can't just be dismissed as baseless is all I am saying.
Maybe his silence is just to appease the far right as he so desperately needs their support right now. But time and time again we see that the actions of the government are contrary to their statements. It doesn't seem likely that Netanyahu will survive another election and hopefully whoever comes into power next can stamp out any push of resettlement, if it isn't too late by then.

So why did hamas do it? What did they hope to achieve?

History shows that this isn't true though. Year on year on year on year more Palestinians than Israelis die. This isn't about not caring. This is about looking at the situation realistically. Israels existence is not in anyway threatened. It just isn't. It took two years of planning and lots of ignoring of intelligence warnings for Hamas to kill 1200 people. Israel retaliated and 4% of Gazas population is either dead, injured or missing in a few months. Israel have the power, this is clear for anyone to see.

Sounds like a question for israelilefty...

It's not that we don't care. But it is easy to pontificate from afar, most of us are not being terrorised or bombed.

Exactly. Unfortunately it's something mny of us expected to happen since the start of this most recent stage of the conflict.

Sadly I see no middle ground on this topic, especially as views become ever more polarised.

If Israel agreed to a ceasefire tomorrow it would mean a lot fewer Palestinian civilian casualties but it would mean Hamas would remain in power and they would attack Israeli civilians as they have promised to do so.

If there is no ceasefire tomorrow then the war continues, there are fewer Israeli civilian casualties but more Palestinian casualties.

So ultimately it comes down to a choice between Israeli civilian casualties or Palestinian civilian casualties. And if you want to protect Israeli civilians then you will correctly be criticised for not caring about Palestinian civilian casualties and if you want to protect Palestinian civilian casualties then you will correctly be criticised for not caring about Israeli civilian casualties.

@quantumbutterfly 11 cabinet ministers and 15 coalition members of Knesset were amongst those who showed their support and attended the resettlement of Gaza conference that was held not long ago. So these concerns are not baseless.

I think some people on this thread need to look at the bigger picture.

If Israel stopped fighting it would be destroyed by incursions from Hamas, Hebollah, Al Nusrah and other State Sponsored Terrorist groups.

UK (and other) Governments are concerned about Iran's influence in the region -

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9504/

I'll repeat what I said. Israel does not have more rights than any other country. They do not have the right to starve millions. They do not have the right to kill civillians en masses. They do not have the right to commit war crimes. They do not have the right to illegally occupy.

Israel is no more fighting for its survival than any other country that has had a terrorist attack. It's shocking and dreadful but it doesn't threaten a countries right to exist.

And also unlikely. Rumour has it Israel forcibly removed settlers from Gaza, even disinterred the dead for fear of desecration. Not all Gazans want peace or accept Israels existence and suicide bombs on buses tend to create bad neighbourly relations.

Israel is fighting for it's survival.

No, survival does not mean destroying an entire area and killing all its inhabitants, most of them children. The plans of some people already proposing to settle in parts of Gaza are just vile beyond words.

“Israel is fighting for it's survival.”
and in order to achieve that it has to destroy a country and kill thousands and injury for life millions.

Yes, it's appalling that so many of our leaders won't stand up to him. Appalling and pathetic.

@ProfessorPipsqueak "This is so boring at this stage. Absolutely nobody on this thread is denying Israel's right to exist."

But actually you are.

In order to exist Israel needs to vanquish it's enemies. When one group is interspersed with a civilian population it causes problems.

Israel is in a unenviable, unique situation where it is surrounded on 3 sides by terrorist organisations committed to it's destruction.

Hamas in Gaza & Hezbollah in Lebanon both funded by Iran (Shia Muslim)

Al Qaeda in Syria (Sunni Muslim)

All of these groups are funded by foreign powers that want to remove Israel and create an Islamic Caliphate (Sunni or Shia) in the region.

Israel is fighting for it's survival.

Actually my understanding is that many Israelis have been displaced from border areas because you know rocket fire and stuff. I'll put the tea & cake away then.

Netanyahu has been saying for almost half a century, that Palestine has no right to exist :( and he still says the same.

The Western world should have dealt VERY VERY severely with expansion. The Jewish State should have remained as it was originally.

In the meantime, settlers and their families are awaiting just outside Gaza- ready to go and settle Gaza with their own settlements as soon as possible. How can anyone support this?