Standing up for Israel

'we' ?
I suppose those of us who crave a peaceful solution, we see our own children in the victims, some of us have adult children who could be sent to war. 'we' can empathise with both sides.

I was taught to 'turn the other cheek' but how does that work when someone wants to kill you because of something you have no control over - the colour of your skin, the place you were born, the faith you grew up with?

Compassion does leave you vulnerable to anyone unscrupulous. We have heard of peacemakers in Israel who were betrayed by people they considered friends and neighbours. Destroying trust and fostering division is how terrorists win.

Anyway, back to the main topic.

You said to "ask a terrorist, we are...". Is that 'we' as in "you'll need to take that question off Mumsnet?" or 'we' as in a subgroup of posters, or 'we' as in non-Muslims (trust me, I get that a lot, that I must be a terrorist because of my faith, and there is a lot of othering that takes place on these threads), or 'we' in a completely different sense...

As you say, there's lots of divisive rhetoric on here. I regularly see posts supporting the killing of people that I cared and still care about, posts expressing that the lives of my friends and colleagues are acceptable 'collateral damage'. Rather than rush to take offence where none might be intended, I chose to ask for clarification.

The last bit of your post confuses me. Why would I use any vulnerability to try to hurt you? And what vulnerability? Having compassion? That's not a vulnerability, it's a strength.

So what did you mean by asking who 'we' were?

I have seen such divisive rhetoric on here, so many emotive arguments. You know as well as I that parenthood changes you emotionally, and I feel for your loss. Would you use that vulnerability to hurt me?

Thank you.

@Scirocco I just wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss. You were a parent as soon as you learned of the existence of your little one, and that didn't change just because their heart stopped beating.

And you chose to take it when none was intended and be rude in reply.

Interesting. I would assume that someone who is a parent, who has a conscience and who cares, might actually look to apologise after telling the mother of a dead child that she is not a parent.

we are strangers on the net, you know nothing of me and my life experiences, sometimes we let offence go by and sometimes we choose to take it.

Also, may I add @quantumbutterfly many posters on here, myself included, have buried children. Please think before you say things like that in future.

And if I didn't care or have a conscience, would I spend my life saving lives, including risking my own to do so?

of course you are, silly me to take your comment in bad faith.

Excuse me?

That's slightly rude and uncalled for.

Your response of "Ask a terrorist, we are mostly parents, etc" could easily be taken in a number of ways, depending on who you are referring to as we. Simply asking for clarification.

Same. “The present Israel” says to me they’re happy with Israel but not with its current borders. But I’m not the other poster so can’t talk for themself

I didn't say anything about Israelis. 30k Palestinians have been killed and it looks like that number will grow if Israel get their way and murder more in Rafah.

I'm not the problem here. People supporting genocide are.

I read it more as the poster was saying that the current self-proclaimed boundaries (the Occupied Territories) shouldn't be there. Not that Israel as a country shouldn't exist.

The irony being someone else even further up the thread said no one is saying they want to get rid of Israel.

Who's the 'we' there?

I fully supported Israel. But they can’t go into Raffa - the people there have no where to go.
Hamas needs to be destroyed, but not at the expense of 1.5 million other people.

You talk of numbers then you talk of individual children, don't you get it? Or are you part of the propaganda war? Good people want peaceful coexistence and if you don't believe that of Israelis as well as Gazans, then you are part of the problem.

Israel has killed over 10000 children since October.

Ask a terrorist, we are mostly parents, we have consciences, we care, they use that as our weakness. Kfir bibas has not even had a chance at a life so stop the emotional hyperbole, give your head a wobble and thank god (if you have one) it's not your loved one.

@LaDernièreChanson "but fuck me we've got someone upthread coming pretty close to calling for the destruction of Israel."

They certainly did and I have reported it.

"The present day Israel should not exist."

Wow.

Hey OP have you read the story today about 6 year old Hind? How many more children have to die?

Really dangerous rhetoric on this thread. What a shame posters can't have something resembling a balanced conversation about this situation without such extreme - and clearly - uninformed views. I'm absolutely no fan of Israel's behaviour but fuck me we've got someone upthread coming pretty close to calling for the destruction of Israel.

Israels existence is not in anyway threatened. It just isn't.

not to mention a complete lack of understanding about the (long standing) terrorist threats Israel faces, which come from all corners of the region. A PP tried to explain but of course the reaction was la la la fingers in ears. Such entrenchment and unwillingness to engage in good faith makes threads like this absolutely pointless.

Interesting how the justifications for this genocide evolve as the war crimes stack up. I guess we're in the paranoid everyone is out to get us so we just have to kill 30k people and starve millions to defend this threat we've imagined stage of the process.

Ridiculous.