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Conflict in the Middle East

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Standing up for Israel

934 replies

Fizzadora · 07/02/2024 11:41

So, they have got to MN now too.
I just managed to read the previous post before it got deleted for being inflammatory. Not to me it wasn't but then I don't support terrorists.
Many, many people do stand for Israel and not for Hamas (and by definition their supporters; you know who you are).

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Parkingt111 · 13/02/2024 22:06

The Majority of the Muslims in the world are actually non Arab. The country with the largest population of Muslims is Indonesia if I recall correctly

Scirocco · 13/02/2024 21:59

niceandnew · 13/02/2024 21:48

On this topic, can someone educate me on what the term Arab means? If I'm understanding correctly Muslim is someone who follows the religion of Islam. What does Arab mean and when would one use it?

Arab is an ethnic group, with heritage going back to Western Asia or North Africa. There's a large diaspora. It's not a religious term, it's an ethnicity term. However, as a lot of people who belong to that ethnic group are Muslim, some people assume all Arabs are Muslim and all Muslims are Arabs, neither of which is true.

A Muslim is someone who believes in Islam - they believe in God and accept the teachings of the Prophets and Messengers (peace be upon them) including Abraham, Jesus and Muhammad.

niceandnew · 13/02/2024 21:48

On this topic, can someone educate me on what the term Arab means? If I'm understanding correctly Muslim is someone who follows the religion of Islam. What does Arab mean and when would one use it?

Dulra · 13/02/2024 20:37

EasterIssland · 13/02/2024 19:40

im the same and consider myself atheist nowadays. In Spain you’ve to go through a load of loopholes to be removed as catholic the church keeps counting me as if I was practising even if I’ve not believed for 25 years in it

I'm too scared not to believe in God 😂the nuns did a good job on us

Limeandsodaontherocks · 13/02/2024 19:56

EasterIssland · 13/02/2024 19:40

im the same and consider myself atheist nowadays. In Spain you’ve to go through a load of loopholes to be removed as catholic the church keeps counting me as if I was practising even if I’ve not believed for 25 years in it

I’m a practicing Catholic… my faith ebbs and flows but I’m still practicing…
I am always interested in hearing about other faiths. It’s been good to read the exchanges on here which show that most of us just want to understand each other.. and be understood.

EasterIssland · 13/02/2024 19:40

Dulra · 13/02/2024 17:00

Baptised catholic but no longer practicing/ believing. It is extremely difficult to officially leave the Catholic faith so many people (in Ireland anyway) often refer to themselves as lapsed catholic as they no longer practice the faith but are still "counted" as catholic by the church

im the same and consider myself atheist nowadays. In Spain you’ve to go through a load of loopholes to be removed as catholic the church keeps counting me as if I was practising even if I’ve not believed for 25 years in it

Xenia · 13/02/2024 19:27

I support Israel as does the UK and US and many other countries. I think Mumsnet has done a good job of allowing free debate and I know individual posters have very strong views some on one side and some on the other.

anotherlevel · 13/02/2024 18:45

@Dulra Thats interesting, thanks for the explanation.

Dulra · 13/02/2024 17:00

anotherlevel · 13/02/2024 16:29

What is a lapsed Catholic if you don't mind me asking, I've never heard of it before.

Baptised catholic but no longer practicing/ believing. It is extremely difficult to officially leave the Catholic faith so many people (in Ireland anyway) often refer to themselves as lapsed catholic as they no longer practice the faith but are still "counted" as catholic by the church

Parkingt111 · 13/02/2024 16:39

@Humdingerydoo I wouldn't assume offence unless I knew it was being said to offend and thanks for pointing that out.
Yes as you say even in Arabic there are different dialects which affect the spellings especially phonetically when transliterated into a different language
I know around four Ayshas who all spell their names differently in English

anotherlevel · 13/02/2024 16:29

Dulra · 13/02/2024 16:02

Religion and faith create awfully complex rules for people to live by. I include all faiths including my own in that statement. I am a lapsed catholic but was raised with quite strict Catholic parents

What is a lapsed Catholic if you don't mind me asking, I've never heard of it before.

Humdingerydoo · 13/02/2024 16:29

I just wanted to add one thing about the whole spelling of Muslim conversation from earlier - I think it's important to point out that it's very possible that Hebrew-speakers might write Moslem in English as the Hebrew alphabet and sounds don't always directly translate to the English alphabet. I would hope that people would take that into consideration and not necessarily assume offence. My Arabic surname is spelled completely differently by the UK part of the family to how the Israeli side spell it. An exclusively English-speaking outsider wouldn't even recognise them as being the same name 🙃

I really like the approach taken by @Scirocco of educating rather than automatically assuming offence. Thank you for taking your time to do so.

Dulra · 13/02/2024 16:13

ConnieCounter · 13/02/2024 16:07

Why is it always Catholics that are lapsed? I've never heard of a lapsed Protestant.

Catholic guilt maybe 🤔 you need to remind yourself you're a lapsed catholic so you don't feel guilty eating meat on a Friday and not going to mass on a Sunday or not getting my ashes tomorrow on Ash Wednesday

EllaDisenchanted · 13/02/2024 16:11

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

No idea, sorry 😬I really don’t know much about Christianity at all. I’d make a guess it’s different given the belief in Jesus as the Messiah/ son of Gd?

ConnieCounter · 13/02/2024 16:07

Dulra · 13/02/2024 16:02

Religion and faith create awfully complex rules for people to live by. I include all faiths including my own in that statement. I am a lapsed catholic but was raised with quite strict Catholic parents

Why is it always Catholics that are lapsed? I've never heard of a lapsed Protestant.

Parkingt111 · 13/02/2024 16:04

@anotherlevel yes I am

Dulra · 13/02/2024 16:02

Religion and faith create awfully complex rules for people to live by. I include all faiths including my own in that statement. I am a lapsed catholic but was raised with quite strict Catholic parents

Parkingt111 · 13/02/2024 16:01

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

EllaDisenchanted · 13/02/2024 15:54

Mercurial123 · 13/02/2024 14:01

Interesting read



Zionism includes different schools of thought, but it’s the nationalist kind Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spearheads. Oded Balilty/AP

This is because of a combination of the failure to transition the West Bank and Gaza into a Palestinian state, and the contradiction of freedom for Israelis and statelessness for Palestinians.

Although the political power of liberal and Labor Zionism in the Knesset (Israel’s Parliament) has waned, it is certainly alive and well in Israeli civil society. For example, B'Tselem, the legacy of left wing Zionist Yossi Sarid, has been very active in documenting instances of apartheid and settler violence in the West Bank.

In short, Zionism does not preclude someone from being critical of the policies of the Israeli government.

However, for many nationalist, conservative religious and revisionist Zionists, Palestinian self-determination anywhere west of the River Jordan is a direct threat to the Jewish state. They, therefore, do not support Palestinian independence.

This form of Zionism has become the dominant form in Israeli politics today.

Under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, this approach has transcended rhetoric and become legislation in Israel’s Nation State Law of 2018, which legally enshrines unique Jewish sovereignty in the state of Israel and settlement as a “national value”.

It is this kind of Zionism that has informed Israel’s response to Palestinian action - both political and violent - for decades.

It has attempted to justify the blockade of Gaza, the forcible transfer of Palestinians in the West Bank, bans on political speech, mandatory detention without trial, and disproportionate violence as policy solutions to Israeli-Palestinian tensions.

to add, for religious Jews Zionism has a meaning separate from political Zionism - it refers to our eternal longing for our return to our homeland, the coming of the messiah and to rebuild the third temple. It’s central to our belief system, we pray towards Jerusalem three times a day, and our longing to return to Zion is referred to in our daily prayers and blessings over and over again, prayers said by generations of Jews, (for about 2500 years ) - since the destruction of the second temple.

political Zionism is a secular construct.
I believe this is the reason behind why some ( fringe) sects of ultra Orthodox Jews are extremely against secular Zionism and the establishment of the secular state of Israel because they believe that the messiah will come first and then we will return to our homeland. They still pray to return home to Israel daily though.

to be a religious Jew is to be inextricably a Zionist in some form, regardless of opinions on the political structures/ Israeli government/ state of Israel.

EllaDisenchanted · 13/02/2024 15:29

I also didn’t know about those spellings of Muslim being offensive, so I appreciate learning that. I’ve never seen it written with a z so would have just assumed it was a mistake!

Humdingerydoo · 13/02/2024 15:22

Thank you very much to everyone for answering my question! There honestly is no way I could have known about it if it weren't for people actively telling me. Hopefully others will read your posts and learn from it too!

Fussandmisery · 13/02/2024 15:16

It's easy to not see things when it's not your loved ones being targeted. I sometimes miss Islamophobic comments on here because it's not something I have to think about very often as it doesn't affect me personally. But I see all the antisemitic and anti-Israeli comments because they affect me by virtue of having lots of family in Israel. So your impression isn't the full picture. It would be impossible for it to be

Okay, fair point.* *

Scirocco · 13/02/2024 15:14

@Humdingerydoo I think it comes down to context. If I knew someone using that spelling was from a culture or country in which that was an accepted spelling (got to love transliteration-related spelling issues - as an aside, my DH and I both have names that can't be spelled precisely in each other's first languages!), then I wouldn't take offence. However, in the UK, that spelling is most commonly associated with people from the far-right who use it in a derogatory way. The way that spelling is pronounced in English is different from Muslim, and is closer to 'mozlem' as @Parkingt111 said.

anotherlevel · 13/02/2024 14:59

I guess everyone is different on what they find offensive and what they don't.
Out of interest @Parkingt111 and feel free to not answer, what religion are you?
I'm Muslim myself and I would have just assumed they misspelt muslim. I know in some regions they pronounce words differently to the others and may just be spelling it phonetically.

Parkingt111 · 13/02/2024 14:59

Also sorry I realise I'm probably waffling off topic on here so il stop now