Standing up for Israel

From what I could tell the Bedouin also have a proud identity as such, and do not call themselves either Arab or Palestinian. Israeli society seems to refer to them 'the Arabs,' though, despite the fact I never heard a Bedouin person describe themselves as such. It seems complicated.

I'm glad we sorted it out. And I'm glad you called out what you thought was me being offensive as if you thought so, others might have as well. It's given me an opportunity to either explain or educate myself.

Genuinely, is there a more appropriate term to use? I am not an expert either but to avoid generalising people maybe use Egyptian, Palestinian, Lebanese, Iraqi, Jordan etc. No one likes being lumped together with other people distinctly different to them. I would personally find it unusual as an Irish person to be referred to as European when someone was talking about something a group of people from say France were saying.

@Humdingerydoo thanks for explaining, it's just that in the post I quoted it didn't come across that way, well to me anyway.

Yes but that's exactly what I meant - Arab-speakers from various nations. I have seen quotes from Egyptian, Palestinian, Lebanese, Iraqi, Jordan etc who have said "death to the Jews" in Arabic and then had it explained to me that they use the same word for Israeli as they do for Jew. So they're not calling for death to all Jews, they're calling for death to Israelis which apparently makes it not antisemitic. That was the whole point.

To be very, very clear - I don't for even a second think or mean that all or even the majority of Arabs have said that. I mean that there have been a small group of people from various Arab nations who have said it. That's why I used the term Arab, just like I would have said European if they had been French, Greek and Belgian.

Genuinely, is there a more appropriate term to use? My family refer to themselves as Arab so it didn't occur to me for even a second that it would be offensive. If it had, I wouldn't have said it.

The word "Arab" is a generic term; it does not distinguish between the different nationalities ( Egyptians/Jordanians/ Lebanese/Palestinians and so on).
It is offensive for some because it is, in effect, not recognising their individual identity. It is "lumping" them together.

I meant that I can't see where Scirocco said anything about 'Arab' being an offensive term. Again, I'm happy to be educated and use a different preferred term. I was referring to people who speak Arabic. I genuinely don't know what else to call them. Would Arabic-speakers have been better? Although that's not the term the poster I was replying to used - they used Arab.

@Humdingerydoo I haven't seen the posters post as it's been deleted.

First of all, I can't see that poster having said the term Arab is offensive. Secondly, half my family are Arabs. Thirdly, what else would you like me to call people who speak Arabic? I'm happy to use a different word if you'd prefer.

*@Humdingerydoo

Is that a bit like how Arabs call Israelis Jews?*

I thought we all discussed this yesterday and @Scirocco explained how using the word 'Arab' is offensive?

Apparently we're all only allowed to be in 'ancestral homelands' whatever that means.

Do we work that out as highest percentage of DNA wins or relocate ourselves in bits? Or is it the most ancient fragment of DNA that counts?

Utter, inflammatory, racist, divisive bollocks.

@BoxOfPaints definitely not countless generations in the UK, we were only allowed back after the expulsion from Britain in Cromwells time, so roughly 350 years. Probably not countless generations in many Christian countries either because there is a long bloody history of pogroms and expulsions so there was always some shifting and movement.

As an aside, Stamford hill Jews are exceptionally unlikely to become settlers, they are ideologically very different.

no objective need for refuge in your opinion. When you’ve been the recipient of anti semitism, and see the way it is bubbling up again worldwide, the writing is on the wall.

niceandnew-Not true. Palestinians are Levantine Arabs, they are native to the region and are descended from the Canaanites. Genetic studies have shown this back at around 2000.

www.juancole.com/2023/05/palestinians-indigenous-palestinian.html

(Asides from your post stinking strongly antisemitic) it is also factually incorrect.

As per my research the majority of current Palestinian Muslims are geographically Arabs rooted from the Arabian Peninsula.

Before 1964 "Palestinian Arabs" was the term used for the Muslims residing in Palestine and "Palestinian Jew" was the term for the Jews who resided there too. Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs both occupied the region during the British Mandate and they were referred to as such, which is why many Israeli's will call an Israeli/Palestinian Arab as an "Arab".

Above, I was asking the Muslim MNers if the term "Arab" is seen as derogatory, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm understanding that it is not a racist term although it is often used geographically incorrectly.

On the other hand implying that all Stamford Hill Jews are soon to be Israeli settlers is highly antisemitic, and I take offense.

@BoxOfPaints Like I said, my comment still stands.

@LaDernièreChanson UK citizens who happen to be Jewish, who live in a comfortable London suburb and have no objective need of refuge, have a right denied to Palestinians who were expelled from their homes - perhaps the sarcasm escaped you.

@BoxOfPaints Yes, I'm Jewish and well aware of that law so don't need your schooling thanks very much. And my comment still stands about this specific comment you made: "to make room for settlers fleeing the horrors of Stamford Hill".

@LaDernièreChanson No, it's Israeli immigration law, which permits any Jewish person an unrestricted right of immigration into Israel - this has been in place since the 1950s (i e. shortly after Palestinians, many of whose families has lived in the area for hundreds of years, were expelled in the Nakba). The effect of this is that individuals whose families may have lived in the UK or elsewhere for countless generations are able to immigrate to Israel, while the Palestinians expelled in the Nakba, whose connection with the land was arguably much more immediate, have not been permitted to return by the Israeli government, which does not recognise their right of return. Referring to them as Arabs is just one of the ways that the Israeli right wing seeks to minimise their identity and rights.

why they shouldn't be forced out to make room for settlers fleeing the horrors of Stamford Hill.

FFS. That is blatant antisemitism.

Wow. Tell us your prejudices why don't you?

Is that a bit like how Arabs call Israelis Jews? Which is a funny one because on the one hand, I frequently see it used as an excuse for "no no, they're not actually calling for the death of Jews! It's just what they call Israelis" but then on the other hand, you've just implied that actually, that's a pretty horrible thing to do as it's trying to strip Israelis of any link to the state of Israel.

You mean the UK government?

@niceandnew you are welcome 😊

Thank you @Parkingt111 @Scirocco