Double standards (Ukraine flag, Israel flag and Palestine flag)

Those objecting are not necessarily racist.

I was thinking about your post last night and what you describe as 'courage' of the Palestinians. I don't dispute it, they do have a lot more courage than me, I would take my children and run rather than risk everybody's lives. You might describe that as cowardly, I don't care. I think valuing a piece of land higher than your own life and the lives of your children and the lives of your enemy and the lives of their children for generations is fucked up. I know the Israelis also value the land they see as theirs more highly than their own children as well (wtf!)

I think the bottom line of most conflicts around the world, however people like to dress it up, scratch the surface, it's all about the money. As I understand it one of the main drivers of Israeli occupation of the West Bank is he simple fact that the land is cheaper. Don't think I'm painting us any better either. We sit and watch thousands of children being killed in Gaza while our government is still supporting Israel (wtf). But as soon as the money gets attacked (targeting of ships in the red sea) we can't be having it and spring into action.

And this assertion of yours that they will NEVER leave this land. What if climate change come along and makes it uninhabitable? Puts it all under 10 foot of water. What they going to do, stay there and all drown? I can't help thinking that the world would be a lot better place if we all stopped valuing stuff so much and people so little.

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Maybe they're talking about hamas going after Spain?

I think it is the man interviewed at 1:40, @stomachameleon I do know many Israelis don't think like this.

@stomachameleon A settler interviewed in a documentary said he thought Israel should take anywhere in the world they deemed to be Israel. He believed it would benefit the world. Obviously this is the extreme end of settler opinion, but there are politicians like Gvir, Smotrich, Bennet, Netanyahu sympathetic to settlements and the movement appears influential in government poiicies. A more moderate government may happen, but I think the settler movement is quite established and they do not seem interested in peace as much as expansion.

Even more extreme are those who envision taking anywhere in the world.

@stormy4319trevor I hope I have read that wrong?

@Kendodd I agree that even if Palestine was given land and sovereignty, there still may be hostilities. We don't know that though, and I feel it is wrong even for me to use the word 'given.' It is not some act of benevolence, it is their right. The rest of the world should be supporting this solution to be enacted peacefully, My other point would be that even if Palestine became legally part of Israel and Palestinians left, the movement for a greater Israel wants Lebanon, parts of Syria, sometimes Jordan. Even more extreme are those who envision taking anywhere in the world. So I don't think your proposal would work in terms of peace, and nor is it morally acceptable. I understand wanting the bloodshed and suffering of children to end. If there were a safe, fertile, unpopulated, unclaimed land to give to the Palestinians maybe that would be the best that can be done. But there isn't. I do think we should be offering asylum to those who want it, pressuring for ceasefire and return of hostages and offering protection on the ground to Palestinians in the OPT while establishing the 2 state. I can't see better options to this heart breaking situation.

Or at least I don't think any land on earth is worth this much blood and the lives of so many children. If it was me, what would I choose, my house or my childrens lives?

I did say how's it working out for everyone, didn't I, not just the Palestinians.

And the reason I said the Palestinians and not the Israelis is because at the moment the Israelis have the upper hand. If the Palestinians had the upper hand (and had had the upper hand for the last few decades) I would have said the Israelis should just leave, nobody should have to live like this. I didn't claim my solution is fair either, I know it's not, but if it could end the bloodshed I think it's worth it, no land on earth is worth this much blood.

How’s apartheid and occupation working out for Israelis? Funny how I don’t see you dreaming for them to push off to the US or UK or Europe. Only Palestinians. Any reason for that?

Keep going with what they're doing then. How's it working out for everyone so far?

how easy of someone to make such a statement when it’s not their land and blood. When it’s not their home which has been confiscated. When it’s not their children who have been killed. How easy it is to say they should just give up and let their oppressors triumph. it’s a good thing that Palestinians have more courage and resilience than you could ever dream of. They will NEVER leave their land. They have endured a genocide and 75 years of brutality and will never give up. Better that you wish for the other side to accept this and for the world to come to its senses and stop being complicit in Israel’s crimes. Thankfully the silver lining of this genocide is that the ordinary people across the world have had their eyes opened.

and fyi - this isn’t about hatred for Palestinians. Despite the pernicious attempt to push that narrative, it’s never been about hate and it’s not about religion. It’s a fight for justice and for a homeland that was stolen.

I feel the same. I would like to hang an Israeli flag in my window but I am certain my house would be vandalised, given the huge rise in anti-semitic attacks in my area recently. I see plenty of Palestinian flags flying around though.

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I’ve seen loads of Ukrainian flags and loads of Palestinian flags. I haven’t seen any Israeli flags. I wish I could put one up, because I would like to, but I don’t want rocks thrown through my windows or get harassed, so I don’t.

No. I have seen masses of Ukrainian flags, and they are totally uncontroversial. They are usually linked with welcoming Ukrainians who've escaped the conflict and raising money to help them. Noone is offended by them (and I would imagine most ordinary Russians living in the UK are opposed to what Putin is doing).

I have not seen any Israeli or Palestinian flags where I live, the only place I have seen these is on the news. I think flying either flag is likely to cause offence. The conflict is much more complex, and there are people in the UK who strongly support of strongly opposed both sides. This is completely different to Ukraine/Russia, because the only people in the UK supporting Russia are the Russian embassy.

You are presenting flying through Ukrainian flag and Israeli flag as if it's the same and generally accepted, this is completely false.

@BackandForthRoundandRound Eh?

I was asking you a question.

Thats all

Sadly yes.
I don't believe the killing is ever going to stop if the two parties continueto fight over this land. Let Israel keep every blood socked inch. I know this isn't fair but that's just how it is. And perhaps even more shocking, I then think we should forget how they got this land and that their homes built on the bones of Palestinian children. In 100 years time, every guilty party in the conflict will be dead and the new generation of Israelis living on this land will be innocent. Palestinians who have made new lives elsewhere will also all be innocent and the guilty dead long ago.

There seems to be a very common view that we must remember our history. Often said that we can learn from it to prevent us repeating the same mistakes. As far as I can see, not just in this conflict but in conflicts around the world, remembering our history is the problem not the solution. It pollutes the future and spreads hate down through the generations for hundreds of years.

A two state solution would be better but just doesn't seem realistic. Admittedly, my solution doesn't seem realistic either. Neither side are willing to let go of the hatred, even of each others children.

@Poudretteite excellent post. And excuse the apologist.

You are still attempting to come out with the same old line merely phrased in a slightly different way.

Why are so many happily excusing what is happening to the Palestinian people? That is something that goes unanswered and is usually answered with the same old "Hamas" line... hence my mentioning of them.

You are attempting to frame something in a certain way. Why are so many content with what is occurring in Palestine? I think that is a more important question

Again @BackandForthRoundandRound with the bizarre defensiveness around Hamas.

Note - I'm not saying "support " because you're not saying that, however you're on every thread and jump on any and every post critical of the Hamas terrorists

I asked before why that was, and you conveniently refused to answer

It's fascinating