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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Uk politicians position about the war

492 replies

EasterIssland · 31/01/2024 18:28

I’ve read that in the last few days Starmer is concerned about the Muslim people not voting labour cuz of his position

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/30/labour-acts-on-fears-muslims-will-not-vote-for-party-over-gaza-stance

do you think this will have an impact on this years general elections ? I guess whatever they do they’ll lose votes

Labour acts on fears Muslims will not vote for party over Gaza stance | Labour | The Guardian

Exclusive: Party launches outreach effort amid concerns it is losing support of normally loyal voters

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/30/labour-acts-on-fears-muslims-will-not-vote-for-party-over-gaza-stance

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sunick · 09/02/2024 13:51

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AdamRyan · 09/02/2024 13:39

sunick · 09/02/2024 13:30

Israel are not committing genocide though Hamas have announced that is their intention.
The UK government supports democratic Israel which was attacked by the terrorist group Hamas on 7.10 and which then fired thousands of rockets into Israel as well as holding, and abusing, over a hundred Israeli hostages.
That's foreign policy based on the UK's position as a country.
Not the result of random MPs seeking to represent people not resident in their constituencies.

This is getting old now. Hamas have not announced their intention is genocide, a fact I only know because I read up on what they had actually said after so many posters quoted them.

They are a terrorist movement, with an ethos of "armed resistance" against Israeli occupation of "Palestine" but have said they would accept a state on 1967 borders.

If Israel would accept a two state solution much of Hamas raison d'etre would evaporate which would remove their influence as a political group.

sunick · 09/02/2024 13:30

Israel are not committing genocide though Hamas have announced that is their intention.
The UK government supports democratic Israel which was attacked by the terrorist group Hamas on 7.10 and which then fired thousands of rockets into Israel as well as holding, and abusing, over a hundred Israeli hostages.
That's foreign policy based on the UK's position as a country.
Not the result of random MPs seeking to represent people not resident in their constituencies.

ConnieCounter · 09/02/2024 13:18

sunick · 09/02/2024 13:14

MPs are elected to represent their constituents in Britain.
They do not have constituents in Gaza.

Or in Israel. But government MPs are happy to support Israel's genocide campaign. Or is it OK when it's Israel?

sunick · 09/02/2024 13:14

MPs are elected to represent their constituents in Britain.
They do not have constituents in Gaza.

Polka83 · 09/02/2024 12:18

It’s informative when people start to insult people when they don’t agree with their views. Feels like they’re losing the argument if not their perceived moral high ground.
Why can’t MPs represent concerns of their constituents? Muslim and non Muslim voters have concerns (including Jewish, Hindu, Christians, atheists etc) about what is in Gaza.

The AIPAC plays a role in politics in the US to support Israel. Are you also suggesting this is wrong too?
@sunick

sunick · 09/02/2024 10:39

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Offwiththecircus · 09/02/2024 08:54

SharonEllis · 08/02/2024 22:28

Which is what you would expect, no? No political party works out a manifesto too far in advance of an anticipated election. Too much can change, too many hostages to fortune & too much about the detail that they dont know - they are only just having meetings with the civil service.

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well not long left.
The "tableau" simplified massively yesterday of course.
Let's hope I can see the difference between captains starmer and sunak by the time the spangled election-off show starts.

Ladyjanegreysketle · 09/02/2024 06:47

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SharonEllis · 08/02/2024 22:28

Offwiththecircus · 07/02/2024 12:13

Well apparently labour are still figuring it/their "tableau" out.

BBC News - Labour works on plan for power
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68205102

Which is what you would expect, no? No political party works out a manifesto too far in advance of an anticipated election. Too much can change, too many hostages to fortune & too much about the detail that they dont know - they are only just having meetings with the civil service.

Offwiththecircus · 07/02/2024 12:13

Well apparently labour are still figuring it/their "tableau" out.

BBC News - Labour works on plan for power
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68205102

PeasfullPerson · 05/02/2024 21:46

MushMonster · 01/02/2024 17:21

To be honest, surely labour is worried about this demographic and the other, but.... aren't this people meant to be politicians? So to have a political belief of some sort and a strategy? A plan? That comes from the core of their ethics, socio-economic model beliefs? And then adapt that to the current circumstances?
I am more than fed up of them saying whatever they think will get them votes. That is not real politics, it is utter shite. And the main reason why we are in this mess. The international crisis on leadership is too much. We need real leaders that believe in what they say and speak their mind. Otherwise, we can name the lettuce that competed against Truss as PM and it will not make an ounce of difference.

I’m not really sure what Labour stand for anymore. The one thing they have going for them is the complete dogs dinner the Tories have made of… well most stuff really.
KS seems to have managed to protect himself from being attacked by them and their media buddies by positioning himself as a non-entity. So I’m a bit perplexed that he would stick his head out about the war in Gaza, in a way that seems so miscalculated.
I keep hoping that something good will come, like you say, a clear strategy and some leadership which is based on core values.. but I don’t know!

sunick · 05/02/2024 21:20

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Original poster
EasterIssland · 05/02/2024 21:12

Only 60% of British Muslims who backed Labour at the 2019 general election are willing to do so again at the next general election expected this year, the survey finds.
Survation, which conducted the poll for the Labour Muslim Network, spoke to 682 Muslims across Great Britain and found that the Green party has attracted 14% of British Muslims and 9% willing to back the Liberal Democrats. More than 20% of Muslim voters remain undecided, giving Labour some hope

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/05/british-muslims-losing-trust-in-labour-over-its-handling-of-israel-gaza-war

Uk politicians position about the war
OP posts:
Original poster
EasterIssland · 04/02/2024 17:49

NI first minister in her opening speech
https://twitter.com/OnlinePalEng/status/1754106237921177648

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Offwiththecircus · 02/02/2024 06:52

SharonEllis · 01/02/2024 20:21

Have you been to see him speak in person? Ave you been out canvassing with him? It's the nature of media coverage that most of it is based on occasions with pre-prepared scripts.

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Media coverage is pretty much always organised by the party PR wonks. Am not aware that media are chasing Starmer down the street, accosting him at his local market asking for his views on the burning questions of the day. The media are instead invited to roll up for the leader's latest speech. Even interviews are very often tightly controlled. If Starmer is so good on the stump, comes across well in rather less formal settings where he can be freely questioned, why don't the PR wonks set up such opportunities - let him loose, let him fly like the impassioned beast you seem to reckon he is?

Original poster
EasterIssland · 02/02/2024 00:03

hogmanayhoolie · 02/02/2024 00:00

@EasterIssland Why mention 3 of them?

Why not 4? Why Starmer's wife and not Yousef's wife.

not going to continue with this conversation. Think you’re trying to twist words when there is none from my side. Don’t think starmer , Sunak and yousef are unbiased with their decisions and this might affect their parties in general elections

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hogmanayhoolie · 02/02/2024 00:00

@EasterIssland Why mention 3 of them?

Why not 4? Why Starmer's wife and not Yousef's wife.

Original poster
EasterIssland · 01/02/2024 23:36

Humdingerydoo · 01/02/2024 23:01

My point is that her being Jewish, her religion, has nothing to do with any possible bias. Her familial link to Israel may, but the fact she's Jewish doesn't. Assuming bias based on her religion would be pretty antisemitic. So maybe just stick to saying that you think Keir Starmer may be biased because he has family in Israel. Like, you're not saying Hamza Yusuf is biased because he's Muslim, you're saying it's because he's got relatives in Gaza. So say the same for Keir Starmer.

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Maybe You’re assuming too much. I don’t live in Scotland , if you realise I’ve not even mentioned the Scottish name cuz I don’t know it , same way I don’t know what his religion is. I know about his in laws as it was in the news about them managing to scape Gaza when the war starter.
Same way I read the news about starmer and his relatives. If this is antisemitism then I’m sorry for it, not done on purpose.
As I’ve mentioned previously I can’t even vote in the general elections so whilst I might feel closer to one party or another , I don’t fully pay attention to any party directly because it’d be a waste of my energy when the decision relies on other people’s and not mine.

I do feel the 3 of them tho are affected by their private life and therefore the actions they take. And because this war is a bit black or white in many ways , I’m sure they’ll attract or lose some supporters. Again this was in the news about how labour is worried about losing some votes for starmers decision, it’s not my words but coming from the party. Imo Tories doubt they’ll be much affected by it. SNP probably they might lose some people’s votes

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Humdingerydoo · 01/02/2024 23:01

EasterIssland · 01/02/2024 22:36

Apologies. That’s not what I meant
I meant
Scottish mp is more pro Palestine probably because his relatives are Palestinian.
Starmers relatives are from Israel / Jewish so I do believe that his behaviour has got something to do that as well.
same way as sunaks wife’s businesses having relations with Israel.

I might be wrong but I do feel none of them are bias in this story.

Edited
Show quote history

My point is that her being Jewish, her religion, has nothing to do with any possible bias. Her familial link to Israel may, but the fact she's Jewish doesn't. Assuming bias based on her religion would be pretty antisemitic. So maybe just stick to saying that you think Keir Starmer may be biased because he has family in Israel. Like, you're not saying Hamza Yusuf is biased because he's Muslim, you're saying it's because he's got relatives in Gaza. So say the same for Keir Starmer.

Original poster
EasterIssland · 01/02/2024 22:36

Humdingerydoo · 01/02/2024 19:27

I don't want to get into an argument but please be more careful with how you phrase things going forward. You've made it sound as though Starmer's wife being Jewish is one of the reasons people won't vote for him.

I assume you only mentioned his wife's religion to explain why he has relatives in Israel but the wording makes it sound like the reason people won't vote for him is because of his wife's religion... and since we're specifically talking about him losing the Muslim vote, it therefore sounds like you're saying Muslims are antisemitic. I'm pretty sure that's not something you believe or want to be implying!

Show quote history

Apologies. That’s not what I meant
I meant
Scottish mp is more pro Palestine probably because his relatives are Palestinian.
Starmers relatives are from Israel / Jewish so I do believe that his behaviour has got something to do that as well.
same way as sunaks wife’s businesses having relations with Israel.

I might be wrong but I do feel none of them are bias in this story.

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stormy4319trevor · 01/02/2024 21:02

@SharonEllis We will have to disagree! I'm sorry for derailing your thread OP.

stormy4319trevor · 01/02/2024 20:59

And while I'm not drawing conclusions, I think he should explain why he's reported to be in Epstein's black book. Being a public figure and a knight.