Aid workers accused of taking part on 7/10 attack on Israel - appalling !

I honestly have said all I have to say on this topic. I suggest you read this and then ask me again to understand Israel’s “reasons” as an occupying power for terrorizing the people it occupies.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68141039

Exactly, it was the repeated deadly attacks by Jewish terrorist groups that prompted the pull out.

https://warontherocks.com/2021/07/july-22-a-pivotal-day-in-terrorism-history/

"Seventy-five years ago today, at approximately 11:45 a.m. on July 22, 1946, a stolen delivery truck pulled up to the basement service entrance at the front of Jerusalem’s King David Hotel. Five terrorists from the Irgun Zvai Le’umi — a Jewish underground organization commonly known as the Irgun — exited the vehicle and, disguised as Arab workers, carried seven large milk churns into La Regence, the hotel’s chic nightclub located in the basement. Each churn contained approximately 50 pounds of high explosive. Fifty-two minutes later the bombs detonated, killing 91 people and injuring 45."

You really don’t get it do you. These two sides are not equal in their wrong doing. Israel is the occupying power. So recognized and acknowledged under international law. The two sides do not have the same responsibilities towards each other and should not be judged by the same yardstick. Israel is the aggressor in the context of the context of this entire mess. If it doesn’t want to feel “threatened” it should end its aggression against those it is occupying.

Part of it ending is understanding the reasons, even if they are unpalatable. It will never end unless the full motivations of both sides are understood.

For example, if the Israeli military are occupying Palestinian territories because they fear terrorist attacks, it is helpful to understand this even if you don’t agree with it. It would be helpful to know why Israelis who are not religious fundamentalists might support it, given that Israel is a democracy.

It is also helpful to know why Hamas launched their murderous attack on Oct 7th. Was it to undermine warming relations in the ME? Was it just an opportunity to be barbaric? Or something else? I can see why understanding that is helpful.

I don’t actually care. It’s illegal, it’s morally wrong. It should end.

I’m sure Putin had his reasons for invading Ukraine. I’m sure China has its reasons for rounding up Uyghurs in forced labour camps. Are we going to debate their reasons too or is it only Israel whose “reasons” for war crimes and breaches of international law we’re being asked to understand?

So there is an agreement that both sides have reasons for feeling threatened? And it is clear that while action against military targets might sometimes be necessary, deliberately targeting citizens is never ok regardless of past wrongs.

Are there any other reasons?

Perhaps you should have watched some footage of the 75 years preceding October 7th or the 115 days since then, where 27,000 innocent Palestinians have been killed, 70% of whom have been women and children. Not to mention the millions facing starvation, thirst and living in the open air in freezing conditions.

To be clear, I am not in any way justifying October 7th. I condemn it. But if you are going to use it as the basis to justify Israel’s actions in Gaza, then by equal measure you also need to consider the impact of all the atrocities suffered by Palestinians across 75 years before and after October 7th to understand their perspective and actions.

There are some posters (one in particular who probably utilizes multiple usernames) who like to spam threads which a revisionist version of history that they present as fact. It’s quite bizarre.

It is simple. That is the position under international law. The end of the occupation is not happening because the bottom line is that there is a significant proportion of Israeli society that think “Judea and Samaria” (as they like to call it) and the Gaza Strip are the God given right of the Jewish people, and it is their duty to occupy and settle it. They have been aided and abetted by various Israeli governments for decades.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/29/israeli-ministers-attend-conference-calling-for-voluntary-migration-of-palestinians

That is not what happened... They were actively involved in some completely brutal crimes against the Palestinian people. They also didn't pull out due to "being shot at from both sides" one side happened to turn on them massively

That is not what happened... They were actively involved in some completely brutal crimes against the Palestinian people. They also didn't pull out due to "being shot at from both sides" one side happened to turn on them massively

Gaza was under the direct control of Egypt from 1949 - 1968.

Are you saying that Egypt denied the Gazans Aid? If so that is nothing to do with Israel.

Gaza was under the direct control of Israel from 1968 - 2005.

Israel helped build up and support a market gardening industry at that time that exported flowers and fruit internationally.

So, far from denying them Aid Israel was helping them to rebuild Gaza.

When the Israelis left Gaza they also left some of the green houses and other equipment.

https://www.fruitnet.com/fresh-produce-journal/greenhouse-handover-in-gaza/137077.article

The response of the Palestinians was to trash them.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna9331863

So as I see it Palestinians were authors of their own misfortune. They had a chance to continue with a fledgling and thriving economy, but chose to squander that chance.

I disagree.

You can have an occupation without 'putting down roots' as it were.

Germany occupied France but didn't start building house for Germans.

By Israel building settlement, they are appearing to 'stake a claim'. This IMO is not a good idea when the land is disputed by some.

Both the Israelis and Palestinian Arabs want control of Jerusalem, as it is a Holy City for both of them.

In the original Partition Plan Jerusalem was designated as an 'International City' and Britain was sent in by the UN as a peace-keeping force. Eventually the British Army was sick of being shot at by both sides and pulled out.

That left the mess we have now.

I don't know what the answer is.

12 workers out of 13,000 employees. ICJ ordered aide to be allowed into Gaza and then immediately after this ruling multiple countries withdraw funding from the main aide agency. It's just another form of genocide, withdrawing aide to starving people.

I think you’ll find that, as opposed to its current genocidal campaign, may do wonders for Israel’s own peace and security.

I firmly believed that too, until 7 October happened. When I saw the footage on X I suddenly understand the Israeli perspective.

I think you’ll find that, as opposed to its current genocidal campaign, may do wonders for Israel’s own peace and security.

I firmly believed that too, until 7 October happened. When I saw the footage on X I suddenly understand the Israeli perspective.

12 workers out of 13,000 employees. ICJ ordered aide to be allowed into Gaza and then immediately after this ruling multiple countries withdraw funding from the main aide agency. It's just another form of genocide, withdrawing aide to starving people.

You are conflating 'occupation' with the subject of 'settlements'.

I agree that building settlements was wrong.

This issue should have been raised by the government there.

I am merely stating the correct position with regard to Israel’s right to “self defence” under international law, as confirmed by the ICJ.

What I would prefer is the third option that you’ve conveniently omitted, which is for Israel to end its decades long occupation and system of apartheid. I think you’ll find that, as opposed to its current genocidal campaign, may do wonders for Israel’s own peace and security.