Aid workers accused of taking part on 7/10 attack on Israel - appalling !

You can’t reasonably expect Israelis to give up their country and all commit suicide to placate a terrorist organisation

Yet Palestinians are expected to give up theirs. Every day a bit more is taken as settlers steal their homes. Everyday, drip, drip, drip. They aren't allowed to fight back, they aren't allowed to defend their homes, they aren't allowed to use fear as an excuse for bad behaviour. They are expected to sit back and watch as Israel steal their land bit by bit. Sit back as their husbands and sons are stolen in the dead of night and tortured by the IDF. Sit back as their children are killed. Sit back as their children are abused on the way to school every morning by settlers under the protection of the IDF. Drip, drip, drip. There is no right for Palestinians to defend themselves. No outcry when their children are stolen. No outcry when their people are murdered. Israel isn't expected to give up anything, Israel is supported as they take homes and take lives.

@BackandForthRoundandRound I don’t doubt that no one wants to be oppressed.
Had the Palestinian leadership and wider Arab world accepted the 2 state solution in 1948 then no one would have been oppressed. Unfortunately we don’t have a time machine to go back and tell Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq not to try to invade Israel. That obviously doesn’t mean that everything Israel has done since is fine, but it does go some way to explaining why Israel has acted as it has over the years. There have been multiple attempts at a 2 state solution, rejected by the Palestinian leadership because they don’t want Israel to exist. If it were not for Iron Dome, the Palestinian bombs would kill far more Israelis even today. Israel is understandably defensive when that’s their neighbour’s attitude. It must be extraordinarily difficult to live a normal life when you know that a few kilometres away there are terrorists practising to murder you, and every country surrounding yours would like to see you dead. Israel cannot afford to relax and approach the situation with a high tolerance to risk, because if that risk doesn’t pay off, it’s the end for them. There have been plenty of occasions when Israel crossed the line, absolutely! But it seems like you think Israel should be approaching Hamas as if certain branches of Palestinian leadership and allies hadn’t spent the last 75 years repeatedly calling for a genocide against Jews and doing everything in their power to enact it.

@BackandForthRoundandRound I don’t doubt that no one wants to be oppressed.
Had the Palestinian leadership and wider Arab world accepted the 2 state solution in 1948 then no one would have been oppressed. Unfortunately we don’t have a time machine to go back and tell Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq not to try to invade Israel. That obviously doesn’t mean that everything Israel has done since is fine, but it does go some way to explaining why Israel has acted as it has over the years. There have been multiple attempts at a 2 state solution, rejected by the Palestinian leadership because they don’t want Israel to exist. If it were not for Iron Dome, the Palestinian bombs would kill far more Israelis even today. Israel is understandably defensive when that’s their neighbour’s attitude. It must be extraordinarily difficult to live a normal life when you know that a few kilometres away there are terrorists practising to murder you, and every country surrounding yours would like to see you dead. Israel cannot afford to relax and approach the situation with a high tolerance to risk, because if that risk doesn’t pay off, it’s the end for them. There have been plenty of occasions when Israel crossed the line, absolutely! But it seems like you think Israel should be approaching Hamas as if certain branches of Palestinian leadership and allies hadn’t spent the last 75 years repeatedly calling for a genocide against Jews and doing everything in their power to enact it.

@Auvergne63 As I said, there are similar organisations in other countries. Hamas is allied with the Muslim Brotherhood, an alliance between terrorist groups in Palestine and a lot of other countries including Egypt. I don’t think you can reasonably blame the Israelis for the ideology of pan-Islamism and the terrorist organisations which support it. It seems plausible to me that Hamas would exist no matter how Israel behaved. One of their founding goals is to destroy the state of Israel and kill all of the Jews in the world. As long as Israel dares to exist and Jews dare to live, they are an affront to Hamas and Hamas will keep trying to kill them. You can’t reasonably expect Israelis to give up their country and all commit suicide to placate a terrorist organisation, but it seems like that is what it would take for Hamas to make “peace” with Israel.

@BackandForthRoundandRound There are Islamic Brotherhood organisations (partner organisations of Hamas) in many other countries. There has been organised violence by Muslims against Jews throughout history. What makes you so sure that Hamas is a response to Israel?

@BackandForthRoundandRound There are Islamic Brotherhood organisations (partner organisations of Hamas) in many other countries. There has been organised violence by Muslims against Jews throughout history. What makes you so sure that Hamas is a response to Israel?

Perhaps you should have watched some footage of the 75 years preceding October 7th or the 115 days since then, where 27,000 innocent Palestinians have been killed, 70% of whom have been women and children. Not to mention the millions facing starvation, thirst and living in the open air in freezing conditions.

I'm well aware of the history of the region and I don't think Israel is blameless, particularly with the settler issues in the West Bank, but 7 October was utterly beyond the pale. It was clear to me that that point that Israel could not continue to have Hamas as a neighbour.

I also believe that removing Hamas from Gaza will be in the best interests of the Palestinians living there, both for the opportunity not to live under terrorists who don't act in the populations best interests and kill and brutalise any opposition, and to hopefully have a government in charge that doesn't commit acts of terror against a well-armed neighbour and then hide behind their civilian population when the inevitable retaliation occurs.

Agreed.

I saw someone holding a sign at a protest which read:

“Is it complicated, or are you just a shitty person?”

I think that sums it up quite well.

If the occupation ended and Palestinians were able to live in their own state, free from Israeli terror, things might be calmer in the region. A long as Israel refuses to allows this, and continues to besiege, occupy and terrorise, groups like Hamas will exist.

"There must be people who believe in good faith that ending the occupation won't result in peace"

The population has been constantly bombarded with their politicians coming out with all sorts of lies. Poisoned lies designed to try and keep people in a state of fear and alarm.

The hatred for a certain people is taught nonstop from a young age. (There is plenty of evidence of this and they also keep on uploading videos to TikTok mocking Palestinian children)

There are numerous other examples I could give about what is happening. It is all designed to instill fear and hatred.

Focusing on October nonstop is not going to give you the answers. There is so much history going back many years. But this does not seem to fit in with what some people seem to want to believe.

Some people will never be able to recognise or admit what is happening. They ignore the facts and evidence. They instead keep coming back to the same old thing.

I don't know how some people can behave in this manner considering the reality of the situation is that children, women and men are being murdered constantly. It really does show some people's true colours and it is not a pretty sight at all.

But this is obviously contested. Many people don’t agree that Israel bears all responsibility and see the necessity of military action. From what I can see there is complexity that needs to be understood.

Israel has lived in a more or less continuous state of war and I can’t believe any population wants this. There must be people who believe in good faith that ending the occupation won’t result in peace.