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Conflict in the Middle East

Aid workers accused of taking part on 7/10 attack on Israel - appalling !

412 replies

Lanabigbanana · 27/01/2024 18:02

https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/official-statements/serious-allegations-against-unrwa-staff-gaza-strip

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-palestinian-refugee-agency-investigates-staff-suspected-role-israel-attacks-2024-01-26/

From the Guardian 5 hours ago;

"UK suspends UNRWA support after Israeli allegations The UK has temporarily paused future funding of UNRWA, saying it is “appalled by allegations that UNRWA staff were involved in the 7 October attack against Israel”.
A statement sent to the Guardian by the UK’s foreign, commonwealth and development office said:
'The UK is appalled by allegations that UNRWA staff were involved in the 7 October attack against Israel, a heinous act of terrorism that the UK government has repeatedly condemned.

The UK is temporarily pausing any future funding of UNRWA whilst we review these concerning allegations.'

We remain committed to getting humanitarian aid to the people in Gaza who desperately need it."

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EasternStandard · 29/01/2024 10:06

EllaDisenchanted · 29/01/2024 09:57

12 actively participated, but a group of 3000 UNRWA teachers celebrated the attacks on October 7th their telegram group. I'm sure that not every single group member commented and joined in, but this is not 'just 12' hamas members who have infiltrated the group, this is a culture in a UN organisation that is so entrenched, that the actions of October 7th were openly celebrated and cheered on.

Trust in the UN in Israel, which was poor to start, has been badly shaken. Minimising the extent and scale of how compromised UNRWA is does nothing to repair the breach. If the UN are to play a role in bringing the two sides together, and rebuilding peace, showing strong action here is essential.

As I said before, it is imperative that the acute humanitarian needs of Palestinians are met; how would the UN address this in a situation where a UN organisation was not already in place? Would UNHCR step in? What are the protocols for aid in conflicts where the UN does not already have a presence? Given reports of aid being diverted, stolen, and sold, how the aid is handled once it is over the border clearly needs urgently addressing regardless.

https://unwatch.org/group-of-3000-unrwa-teachers-celebrates-hamas-massacre-and-rape/

That is not tiny

I agree btw

EllaDisenchanted · 29/01/2024 09:57

Dulra · 29/01/2024 07:42

You really need to put this into perspective. 12 out of 13,000 working in Gaza. 30,000 employees overall. Yes it is terrible they did infiltrate the organisation but there are very few organisations as large as this that have not had a scandal regarding conduct of a percentage of employees whether it's child abuse, rape, fraud and so on. It is more important to focus on how they deal with it and what they'll put in place to ensure it doesn't happen again

12 actively participated, but a group of 3000 UNRWA teachers celebrated the attacks on October 7th their telegram group. I'm sure that not every single group member commented and joined in, but this is not 'just 12' hamas members who have infiltrated the group, this is a culture in a UN organisation that is so entrenched, that the actions of October 7th were openly celebrated and cheered on.

Trust in the UN in Israel, which was poor to start, has been badly shaken. Minimising the extent and scale of how compromised UNRWA is does nothing to repair the breach. If the UN are to play a role in bringing the two sides together, and rebuilding peace, showing strong action here is essential.

As I said before, it is imperative that the acute humanitarian needs of Palestinians are met; how would the UN address this in a situation where a UN organisation was not already in place? Would UNHCR step in? What are the protocols for aid in conflicts where the UN does not already have a presence? Given reports of aid being diverted, stolen, and sold, how the aid is handled once it is over the border clearly needs urgently addressing regardless.

https://unwatch.org/group-of-3000-unrwa-teachers-celebrates-hamas-massacre-and-rape/

Group of 3,000 UNRWA teachers celebrates Hamas massacre and rape - UN Watch

See Full Report A Telegram group of 3,000 UNRWA teachers in Gaza is replete with posts celebrating the Hamas massacre of October 7th minutes after it began, praising the murderers and rapists as “heroes,” glorifying the “education” the terrorists recei...

https://unwatch.org/group-of-3000-unrwa-teachers-celebrates-hamas-massacre-and-rape

BackandForthRoundandRound · 29/01/2024 09:36

Very well said @Dulra It is a tiny number of people compared to the amount that they employ

MushMonster · 29/01/2024 09:07

I agree with you @Dulra
They are dealing with it. And priority is to get aid to the civilians.
It is also very important to ensure that the aid and money donated goes to the civilians, instead of others. Somehow it is always the civilian who ends up paying for all failures.

Dulra · 29/01/2024 07:42

MushMonster · 29/01/2024 06:50

Here praying that withdrawal of aid to the UN in Gaza means that it will be directed via other organisations, like the Red Cross. Instead of meaning it will not be given.
Why should the civilians be punished, yet once more, for the actions of others?

I am really disappointed and angry at the UN failing to catch people infiltrating their organisation. They should have tougher rules and safety protocols to ensure this never happens again.

You really need to put this into perspective. 12 out of 13,000 working in Gaza. 30,000 employees overall. Yes it is terrible they did infiltrate the organisation but there are very few organisations as large as this that have not had a scandal regarding conduct of a percentage of employees whether it's child abuse, rape, fraud and so on. It is more important to focus on how they deal with it and what they'll put in place to ensure it doesn't happen again

MushMonster · 29/01/2024 06:50

Here praying that withdrawal of aid to the UN in Gaza means that it will be directed via other organisations, like the Red Cross. Instead of meaning it will not be given.
Why should the civilians be punished, yet once more, for the actions of others?

I am really disappointed and angry at the UN failing to catch people infiltrating their organisation. They should have tougher rules and safety protocols to ensure this never happens again.

revsersalenergy · 28/01/2024 23:12

NerdWhoEatsMedlar · 28/01/2024 23:04

I've found the video so that you can judge for yourself @revsersalenergy
Edited

Yeah I've seen it thanks.

NerdWhoEatsMedlar · 28/01/2024 23:04
I've found the video so that you can judge for yourself @revsersalenergy
revsersalenergy · 28/01/2024 23:04

Livinginanotherworld · 28/01/2024 23:01

You are obviously a name changer so we can’t check your comments can we.
My comment was responding to the smearing of Owen Jones so stop with the pathetic derailing.

And most of your comments on Israeli rape victims have thankfully been deleted.

Livinginanotherworld · 28/01/2024 23:01

revsersalenergy · 28/01/2024 19:47

Well given some of the comments you've made in the past about Israeli rape victims I'm not surprised you think that.

You are obviously a name changer so we can’t check your comments can we.
My comment was responding to the smearing of Owen Jones so stop with the pathetic derailing.

Polka83 · 28/01/2024 20:59

Lanabigbanana · 28/01/2024 20:36

So that's what you think, it isn't fact.

The ICJ may be called "one of the highest court in the world" but has no jurisdiction over non-UN members.

From their website;-

"The Court is the principal judicial organ of the United Nations.

The Court can only hear a dispute when requested to do so by one or more States. It cannot deal with a dispute on its own initiative. Neither is it permitted, under its Statute, to investigate and rule on acts of sovereign States as it chooses.

The States involved in the dispute must also have access to the Court and have accepted its jurisdiction, in other words they must consent to the Court's considering the dispute in question. This is a fundamental principle governing the settlement of international disputes, since States are sovereign and free to choose how to resolve their disputes."

This reality constitutes one of the inherent dilemmas of international tribunals that lack any enforcement capacity. (ICJ decisions are formally subject to enforcement by the Security Council, but each of the five permanent members can veto any effort at enforcement.)

You misunderstood what I wrote. Their own legal obligations mean their own national laws.

Lanabigbanana · 28/01/2024 20:36

Polka83 · 28/01/2024 20:18

Seems pretty straightforward to me, and I’m not a lawyer.
Would think their own legal obligations means their own laws that may prevent them from selling arms to a country that the ICJ has grounds to investigate further for potential genocide, or a country that MAY not obey the rulings of one of the highest courts in the world.

So that's what you think, it isn't fact.

The ICJ may be called "one of the highest court in the world" but has no jurisdiction over non-UN members.

From their website;-

"The Court is the principal judicial organ of the United Nations.

The Court can only hear a dispute when requested to do so by one or more States. It cannot deal with a dispute on its own initiative. Neither is it permitted, under its Statute, to investigate and rule on acts of sovereign States as it chooses.

The States involved in the dispute must also have access to the Court and have accepted its jurisdiction, in other words they must consent to the Court's considering the dispute in question. This is a fundamental principle governing the settlement of international disputes, since States are sovereign and free to choose how to resolve their disputes."

This reality constitutes one of the inherent dilemmas of international tribunals that lack any enforcement capacity. (ICJ decisions are formally subject to enforcement by the Security Council, but each of the five permanent members can veto any effort at enforcement.)

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Polka83 · 28/01/2024 20:18

Lanabigbanana · 28/01/2024 19:45

You mean this paragraph?

"A decision can lead them to ask the question as to whether they are potentially in violation of their own legal obligations by continuing to support Israel with military assistance. "

What does that mean " their own legal obligations"? It's just a legal-speak to me.

Seems pretty straightforward to me, and I’m not a lawyer.
Would think their own legal obligations means their own laws that may prevent them from selling arms to a country that the ICJ has grounds to investigate further for potential genocide, or a country that MAY not obey the rulings of one of the highest courts in the world.

Polka83 · 28/01/2024 20:14

Lanabigbanana · 28/01/2024 20:05

I repeat, never said it was a solution.

I presumed you posted it alternative to UNWRA? Then you assumed wrongly.

Or was your post about the charity irrelevant to this thread? It isn't irrelevent to those it supports.

There are several charities working in Gaza,

The International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC) is working with Egyptian Red Crescent Society (ERCS) and PRCS for the transportation of aid into Gaza. Over 5,600 trucks of aid have been delivered and more than 3,800 of them are distributed.

Islamic Relief UK

https://www.charitynavigator.org/discover-charities/where-to-give/israel-hamas-conflict/

https://humanappeal.org.uk/appeals/gaza-emergency-appeal

Yes I read another poster subsequent post- interesting to read about charities which are making an appreciable difference on the ground!

Lanabigbanana · 28/01/2024 20:05

Polka83 · 28/01/2024 13:54

The charity you posted - is it currently able to fill gap of 12,000 UNWRA workers in Gaza. I presumed you posted it alternative to UNWRA? Or was your post about the charity irrelevant to this thread?

Even the International Red Cross cannot replace UNWRA infrastructure.

I repeat, never said it was a solution.

I presumed you posted it alternative to UNWRA? Then you assumed wrongly.

Or was your post about the charity irrelevant to this thread? It isn't irrelevent to those it supports.

There are several charities working in Gaza,

The International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC) is working with Egyptian Red Crescent Society (ERCS) and PRCS for the transportation of aid into Gaza. Over 5,600 trucks of aid have been delivered and more than 3,800 of them are distributed.

Islamic Relief UK

https://www.charitynavigator.org/discover-charities/where-to-give/israel-hamas-conflict/

https://humanappeal.org.uk/appeals/gaza-emergency-appeal

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NerdWhoEatsMedlar · 28/01/2024 20:00

@revsersalenergy have you seen this video?

PeasfullPerson · 28/01/2024 19:49

@NerdWhoEatsMedlar

Thanks for clarifying! There has been so much gaslighting, and so many backward statements, that for a moment I wasn’t sure. Apologies!

I’m sure that many more organisations (and individuals) are under similar attacks, but I can’t think of any to add to your list.

revsersalenergy · 28/01/2024 19:47

Livinginanotherworld · 28/01/2024 19:31

This ! I watched his video as well and totally agree. You are smearing him to suit your agenda.

Well given some of the comments you've made in the past about Israeli rape victims I'm not surprised you think that.

Lanabigbanana · 28/01/2024 19:45

Polka83 · 28/01/2024 19:21

Interesting article by The New Yorker.

Proving genocide is difficult but the ICJ feels there is plausible reason to investigate further. The last paragraph also suggests implications for other states in selling weapons to IDF if it does not meet obligations under provisional ruling

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-importance-of-the-icj-ruling-on-israel

You mean this paragraph?

"A decision can lead them to ask the question as to whether they are potentially in violation of their own legal obligations by continuing to support Israel with military assistance. "

What does that mean " their own legal obligations"? It's just a legal-speak to me.

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NerdWhoEatsMedlar · 28/01/2024 19:42

PeasfullPerson · 28/01/2024 19:32

I can’t tell if this is meant to be sarcastic or not?

Is this your justification for the killing of 10,000 children?

Just listing the ways that all the international organisations are being undermined.

There is no justification for killing 10,000 children. They are children not vermin.

Did I miss any other institutions?

Lanabigbanana · 28/01/2024 19:37

Polka83 · 28/01/2024 13:39

You are proposing them as a solution - I am pointing out an obvious problem

I didn't post that organisation as a solution, so don't misquote me.

I flagged up a small organisation that is trying to help.

There are probably others, but I'm not au fait with all of them.

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PeasfullPerson · 28/01/2024 19:32

NerdWhoEatsMedlar · 28/01/2024 15:13

UN - anti-Semitic

UNWRA - Hamas

WHO - in collusion with Hamas

Amnesty International - is among the most active NGOs that systematically promote demonization of Israel , BDS, and antisemitism – under the facade of universal human rights. In recent years, this bias and discrimination has been reflected in its “apartheid” campaign, extensive efforts to exclude antisemitism as a human rights concern, and undermining the implementation of the International Holocaust Remembrance Association (IHRA) definition to combat hatred of Jews.

ICJ - Ben Gvir slams the International Court of Justice for issuing a series of provisional measures against Israel, calling the international body “antisemitic.”

Red Cross - Red Cross shows clear anti-Israel bias, Jerusalem Institute of Justice claims

What have I missed?

I can’t tell if this is meant to be sarcastic or not?

Is this your justification for the killing of 10,000 children?

Livinginanotherworld · 28/01/2024 19:31

stormy4319trevor · 28/01/2024 18:34

I saw him speak about the film shown to him. He stated that in the film shown to hjm and other journalists he did not see those things, which does not mean they didn't happen. He can't lie and say he was shown things he wasn't? Or are you quoting him from some other video?

This ! I watched his video as well and totally agree. You are smearing him to suit your agenda.

Polka83 · 28/01/2024 19:21

Interesting article by The New Yorker.

Proving genocide is difficult but the ICJ feels there is plausible reason to investigate further. The last paragraph also suggests implications for other states in selling weapons to IDF if it does not meet obligations under provisional ruling

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-importance-of-the-icj-ruling-on-israel

The Importance of the I.C.J. Ruling on Israel

The court did not order a ceasefire, but its finding that Israel is the subject of “plausible” claims that it is in violation of the Genocide Convention is momentous, an international-law expert says.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-importance-of-the-icj-ruling-on-israel

stormy4319trevor · 28/01/2024 18:34

I saw him speak about the film shown to him. He stated that in the film shown to hjm and other journalists he did not see those things, which does not mean they didn't happen. He can't lie and say he was shown things he wasn't? Or are you quoting him from some other video?

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