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Conflict in the Middle East

Can you be anti-Zionist without being antisemitic?

208 replies

TrigTannet · 26/01/2024 22:57

I’m inclined to think the answer is no, but I’ve seen a lot of people on here recently attempting to say that they’re not antisemitic, they’re just anti-Zionism. I would love to hear someone explain how they imagine that works.

As I understand it, Zionism is a political ideology which says that Jews should have self determination in their homeland. Many minority indigenous peoples want, and have, some level of self determination, from fully sovereign states to devolution or reserves with different laws. The world overwhelmingly supports that. What is the moral argument against self determination for Jews?

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localnotail · 26/01/2024 23:38

SalutDecorum · 26/01/2024 23:11

Some bed time reading for you.

We call people that bomb civilians en masse and forcibly evict them from their lands... what? Maybe the ICJ could weigh in on the mysteries of this term for Israel's actions.

I literally don't understand what are you trying to say? Some powerful deflection is going on here. But I can play this game, too. Read up on SA here ))
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/south-africa

I

south africa. environmental.2021.world report.

World Report 2022: Rights Trends in South Africa

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/south-africa

SalutDecorum · 26/01/2024 23:34

TrigTannet · 26/01/2024 23:27

My impression of the mners attempting to claim they’re not antisemitic just anti Zionist is that they’re probably not members of an extreme Jewish religious minority. Perhaps I’m wrong though! @Tel12 @SalutDecorum ?

Think of it this way. You can be anti-Nazi and not anti-German. I can be anti-Wahhabist and not anti-Islam. I can appreciate nuance, which is greatly eroded when the automatic shutdown from the Israeli government and military is any disagreement means you hate Jews.

This is what Zionism gets you. https://x.com/TorahJudaism/status/1719741630763159672?s=20

https://x.com/TorahJudaism/status/1719741630763159672?s=20

TrigTannet · 26/01/2024 23:27

My impression of the mners attempting to claim they’re not antisemitic just anti Zionist is that they’re probably not members of an extreme Jewish religious minority. Perhaps I’m wrong though! @Tel12 @SalutDecorum ?

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SalutDecorum · 26/01/2024 23:11

localnotail · 26/01/2024 23:07

a definition of Zionism: a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.

so you say you are against the "development and protection of a Jewish nation" - I wonder if there is another word for it?...

Some bed time reading for you.

We call people that bomb civilians en masse and forcibly evict them from their lands... what? Maybe the ICJ could weigh in on the mysteries of this term for Israel's actions.

Debunking the myth that anti-Zionism is antisemitic | Peter Beinart

The long read: All over the world, it is an alarming time to be Jewish – but conflating anti-Zionism with Jew-hatred is a tragic mistake

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/07/debunking-myth-that-anti-zionism-is-antisemitic

localnotail · 26/01/2024 23:07

a definition of Zionism: a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.

so you say you are against the "development and protection of a Jewish nation" - I wonder if there is another word for it?...

SalutDecorum · 26/01/2024 23:03

Yes.

Tel12 · 26/01/2024 23:00

Heard a Rabbi talking about being anti Zionist so I guess that it is possible.

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