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Conflict in the Middle East

Netanyahu rules out two state solution

253 replies

ConnieCounter · 18/01/2024 20:58

Netanyahu rejects a Palestinian state. Surprise surprise.

What is his plan for Gaza?

Resettle with Israeli settlements? Return to continued Israeli occupation?

How can the US, UK, EU and others continue to support this war when they claim to be in favour of a two state solution?

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-18-2024-73d552c6e73e0dc3783a0a11b2b5f67d?taid=65a95f27cc8ea90001513093&utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

A Palestinian woman flashes a V-sign towards Israeli troops during an army raid in the Tulkarem refugee camp, West Bank, Wednesday, Jan.17, 2024. An Israeli airstrike killed four Palestinians during a raid in the West Bank. The military says it targete...

Netanyahu says he has told US he opposes Palestinian state in any postwar scenario

The announcement from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu exposed the deep divisions that have emerged between the U.S. and Israel.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-18-2024-73d552c6e73e0dc3783a0a11b2b5f67d?taid=65a95f27cc8ea90001513093

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PiersPlowman11 · 20/01/2024 23:16

The problem, you see, is that the creation of Israel was also endorsed by the “International Community” and look how that has turned out.

The Arabs will accept a Jewish state the day Hell freezes over.

HeidiInTheBigCity · 20/01/2024 21:10

AdamRyan · 20/01/2024 17:19

This is what they said today
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240118-meshaal-hamas-rejects-two-state-solution/

They want a totally independent Palestinian country, in control of its own destiny, rather than the eradication of Israel.

But Hamas are a terrorist organisation so what they think is pretty irrelevant. What do Palestinians want?

(I have to admit I don't fully understand the difference between a two state solution and a separate country but I assume they want the West Bank and Gaza to be within the same borders somehow)

Netanyahu doesn't want a two state solution either. That doesn't mean that Israelis don't want that.

(I have to admit I don't fully understand the difference between a two state solution and a separate country but I assume they want the West Bank and Gaza to be within the same borders somehow)

Let me try and help:

Two-State Solution - This is the most widely, mainstream, endorsed solution, especially by the so-called "international community", including the United Nations, the United States, and the European Union. It proposes the creation of an independent Palestinian state alongside the State of Israel. It has some variations to it, though:

  • Mainstream Version: Envisions Israel and Palestine as sovereign, independent states, usually with borders based on pre-1967 lines, potentially with agreed land swaps and a shared or divided Jerusalem.
  • Variations: Some proposals suggest different border adjustments or security arrangements. Specifically, some pro-Israel proponents envisage a version that sees Israel retaining overall control over the outside borders of the eventual state of Palestine. This is, generally speaking, rejected by Palestinians and their supporters as a version of "occupation light" as opposed to full sovereignty. Other proposals envisage a de-militarised Palestinian state - again, this is endorsed by some on the pro-Israel side and tends to be viewed with scepticism among Palestinians and their supporters - their primary argument being that nothing would stop Israel from invading and maintaining a de facto occupation / hegemony as it pleases in the absence of some sort of a "checks and balances" mechanism.

One-State Solution - This suggests that Israel and the Palestinian territories should form a single, bi-national state. Opinions vary widely on how this would be structured. Again, there are various versions:

  • Equal Rights Version: Advocates for a democratic state where all inhabitants (Israeli and Palestinian) have equal rights. This idea is favored mostly by leftists. Ideas around its practical implementation vary widely, ranging from a "one size fits all" approach to suggestions modelled more along the lines of existing, multi-ethnic states such as Switzerland (a federation with far-reaching devolution of power).
  • Annexation by Israel: Some right-wing Israeli factions favor annexing the West Bank and Gaza and, typically, offering limited rights but not full citizenship, to Palestinians. This would arguably be considered illegal under international law and is widely considered discriminatory. It would, however, also, essentially, be the codified continuation of the status quo.
  • A Single Palestinian State: Basically the same thing as the annexation scenario - except "the other way around". Comes with all the same issues as the former - rarely ever discussed because nobody thinks it could ever realistically happen.

... and, of course, any number of "pretty crazy stuff people come up with", all of which are pretty niche.

HTH.

AdamRyan · 20/01/2024 17:19

PiersPlowman11 · 20/01/2024 12:17

Have Hamas and the Palestinians come out in support of a two state solution?

The events of 7th October suggest to me Hamas has gone all in for a one state solution.

Or bust.

This is what they said today
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240118-meshaal-hamas-rejects-two-state-solution/

They want a totally independent Palestinian country, in control of its own destiny, rather than the eradication of Israel.

But Hamas are a terrorist organisation so what they think is pretty irrelevant. What do Palestinians want?

(I have to admit I don't fully understand the difference between a two state solution and a separate country but I assume they want the West Bank and Gaza to be within the same borders somehow)

Netanyahu doesn't want a two state solution either. That doesn't mean that Israelis don't want that.

TheABC · 20/01/2024 12:47

Whilst I don't think Netanyahu wanted Oct 7th massacre to happen, it was a gift for him, politically, and he will spin this war out for as long as he can to preserve his position and achieve his far-right aims.

How long that will be depends on how much actual support he has in Israel v outside pressure. The IDF abuse, structural indignities in the West Bank, the strength political far right Israeli parties - none of this happened in a vacuum. In the same way we know there is some support for Hamas ideology inside Gaza, there is the same for Netanyahu.

I'm really worried about Gaza being preserved as a Palestinian enclave.

drowninginsick · 20/01/2024 12:27

Kendodd · 18/01/2024 21:55

Netanyahu is a far right nutcase. Hopefully some better leadership will take over at some point soon in Israel.

This!!

If both sides could get some decent representation instead of Netanyahu and Hamas we would be a lot bloody closer to peace

moderationincludingmoderation · 20/01/2024 12:20

She cries because she knows he and his party agenda is not a fair one & won't bring about the peaceful & fair 2 state solution that she and all her community have always wished for.

PiersPlowman11 · 20/01/2024 12:17

Have Hamas and the Palestinians come out in support of a two state solution?

The events of 7th October suggest to me Hamas has gone all in for a one state solution.

Or bust.

moderationincludingmoderation · 20/01/2024 12:13

She lives here in the UK but she was born in Israel, to my Jewish grandmother (born in Jerusalem 1910) and my Jewish grandfather, born in Poland, Holocaust survivor.
She is, and my grandparents were, secular.

She says he's a far right megalomaniac, who will do whatever it takes to stay in power and therefore pushes the agenda of the far right and ultra orthodox.

Her heart broke when Rabin when killed. Bibi had something to do with that..

Offwiththecircus · 20/01/2024 11:24

moderationincludingmoderation · 20/01/2024 10:46

Every time Bibi has come into power my (Israeli) mother has cried for a week...

out of interest does she say anything about him amidst the crying?
Is she is Israel?
Honest questions.

moderationincludingmoderation · 20/01/2024 10:46

Every time Bibi has come into power my (Israeli) mother has cried for a week...

AdamRyan · 20/01/2024 10:09

I think Netanyahu is on his way out and there is about to be a leadership challenge
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68035744

Don't know much about Israeli politics bit if I was reading this about the UK govt I'd think there was about to be a "no confidence"/leadership election scenario

🤞 because the more I read about Netanyahu and what he says the more he reminds me of Putin. He is scary!

Gadi Eisenkot (R) and Benjamin Netanyahu pictured together

Eisenkot: Key Israeli war leader challenges Netanyahu over Gaza strategy

Gadi Eisenkot condemns the prime minister, who insists Israel's offensive will go on until "complete victory".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68035744

AdamRyan · 20/01/2024 10:05

I didn't know that heidi
No wonder he's a master in making his desired outcome seem acceptable to people who should by rights be very worried by it

HeidiInTheBigCity · 19/01/2024 19:39

I am genuinely surprised that at least some people seem surprised!

Literally the entirety of Netanyahu's political career has been centred around "I am the one guy who will stop a two-state-solution" - starting very early on.

I have said this before and will say it again - though I admit there may be some sort of "personal bias" involved here, seeing as I spent a long time working in consulting myself: nothing about Bibi managing to maintain a smooth exterior whilst holding the most indefensible of positions will ever surprise you again once you learn that, after graduating, he worked for BCG. His every statement is "consulting style style over substance"central! Say what you will about the consulting industry - but we train our juniors well, and whichever BCG manager trained him did one stellar job! We would still all be a lot better off if the guy had just stuck to painting pretty powerpoints that make CEOs feel as though they are, ultimately, good people for laying masses of people off!

Offwiththecircus · 19/01/2024 14:58

Kendodd · 18/01/2024 21:55

Netanyahu is a far right nutcase. Hopefully some better leadership will take over at some point soon in Israel.

Trouble is the Israeli ambassador to the UK recently said in a Sky interview that there would never be a two state solution/free palestine and that would be the case even after any change of government in Israel. The film is on youtube.

Offwiththecircus · 19/01/2024 14:56

WatTyler · 18/01/2024 21:49

As the Arabs have ruled out a two state solution at least 5 times in the past, this is irrelevant. They will not countenance a nation called 'Israel' existing at all, anywhere.
Nobody can be allowed to forget 'never again is now'.

"The Arabs"?
A somewhat sweeping description surely?
What would be your take on anyone who said "The Jews" and then labelled all as having the same opinions/motives?

<edit I see others have made the same - very valid - point>

Pinkdressinggownbelt · 19/01/2024 07:36

ConnieCounter · 18/01/2024 20:58

Netanyahu rejects a Palestinian state. Surprise surprise.

What is his plan for Gaza?

Resettle with Israeli settlements? Return to continued Israeli occupation?

How can the US, UK, EU and others continue to support this war when they claim to be in favour of a two state solution?

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-18-2024-73d552c6e73e0dc3783a0a11b2b5f67d?taid=65a95f27cc8ea90001513093&utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

He’s going to do it. We’re all going to watch. The narrative will be written to suit him and his followers. and we will teach the children this “history”

Trulywonderful · 19/01/2024 00:08

Fussandmisery · 18/01/2024 22:03

Netanyahu was never going to back a two state solution, so no big surprise there.

Yep

Trulywonderful · 19/01/2024 00:06

RoastSquash · 18/01/2024 22:44

Not the same unless you’re assuming all Arab people are Muslim, which would be both racist and Islamophobic.

Correct

Trulywonderful · 19/01/2024 00:06

Parkingt111 · 18/01/2024 22:02

I heard Netanyahu's speech and he seems to be quite rattled. Probably as it's becoming more clear that plans are being discussed for after the war by the US which doesn't include him being PM anymore.

This

RoastSquash · 18/01/2024 22:44

EasterIssland · 18/01/2024 22:28

Please don’t use the word Arabs. It’s Islamophobic. Same way you wouldn’t say “the Jewish have rejected the 2 state solution” because it’d be antisemitism

Not the same unless you’re assuming all Arab people are Muslim, which would be both racist and Islamophobic.

EasterIssland · 18/01/2024 22:28

WatTyler · 18/01/2024 21:49

As the Arabs have ruled out a two state solution at least 5 times in the past, this is irrelevant. They will not countenance a nation called 'Israel' existing at all, anywhere.
Nobody can be allowed to forget 'never again is now'.

Please don’t use the word Arabs. It’s Islamophobic. Same way you wouldn’t say “the Jewish have rejected the 2 state solution” because it’d be antisemitism

Fussandmisery · 18/01/2024 22:03

Netanyahu was never going to back a two state solution, so no big surprise there.

Parkingt111 · 18/01/2024 22:02

I heard Netanyahu's speech and he seems to be quite rattled. Probably as it's becoming more clear that plans are being discussed for after the war by the US which doesn't include him being PM anymore.

Peeony · 18/01/2024 21:58

Remember there is a lot of big man sabre-rattling in middle-eastern politics so you have to take this with a pinch of salt

Kendodd · 18/01/2024 21:55

Netanyahu is a far right nutcase. Hopefully some better leadership will take over at some point soon in Israel.