Israel/Hamas War - Ceasefire

Which part?

It's the shamelessness in saying it knowing that it's being recorded and the cocky knowledge he likely won't be punished.
These sexist arrogant idiots are about to set the whole world on fire.

P.s. Iran's IRGC has just attacked a US base in Iraq, a MOSSAD base in Iraq and ISIS in Syria.

https://x.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1747012959535006126?s=20

Yes, seen this. Thought the replies clarified Sunak's points.

And probably libellous.

I understand that it if you have family/friends in Gaza, then perhaps its harder to align yourself with freeing Israeli hostages as they're seen as the enemy.
But I'm assuming that a very large number of UK people attending these ceasefire protests do not have direct connection to Gaza. And I've seen many people attending are claiming to be objective, and that they care about the lives of "all" civilians, so why aren't we seeing the lives of the Israeli hostages represented at the protests alongside the Gazan civilians?

I don't think it's right for you to use language like this especially the word genocidal at this country's Premier. Genocide had not been proven and how is Sunak genocidist when he is PM of a country thousands of miles away. Are you saying they every leader that supports a country's right to defend themselves genocidist?

Sorry, that's very wrong in my view.

I've been wondering the same. untitledmum ... and I think we both know that the answer is that the protests are really organised by those who are anti-Israel and supported by unthinking nouveau lefties.

I keep doing a thought experiment where the NOVA festival was actually an LGBTQ+/queer festival and the hostages captured and abused were from this community and not women and others. I suspect the nouveau lefties' heads would explode trying to figure out who they support and I also bet the media would not have virtually forgotten about the hostages and the crimes against them.

I have a sincere question for anyone who's been at one of the local ceasefire protests.

Alongside the demands for Israel to cease bombing, why are there no placards demanding Hamas to release the civilian hostages?

A ceasefire is when both sides agree on a truce, but all I've seen of the protests, is the demand for Israel to compromise. Why aren't we also holding Hamas accountable for this ceasefire?
Wouldn't an ideal peaceful protest placard say something like "Free the Gazans, Free the hostages" ? Or why not "Free Gaza from Hamas"?

Seen and ... what the hell?!?

I am not even remotely religious but WTAF was Rishi thinking???

I would so like to say "I will never vote for you again" ... just ... for hopefully obvious reasons, I have never once voted Tory during the two decades when I would have been old enough to vote to begin with!

Shame! I really DID want the chance to shout "I will never vote for you again" at the genocidal bastard!

Goodness me! It’s just like being on mumsnet.. or in the twilight zone. Is that the best response they could come up with??!

Regarding a ceasefire has anyone seen this? From Zarah Sultana MP

https://twitter.com/zarahsultana/status/1746987163202343208?t=ugo0qvzXF93l9CPcUNlxSg&s=19

IF and WHEN the apartheid end's in Gaza, I imagine that a significant percentage of the displaced Palestinian's living in Jordan and Lebanon would attempt to return to Gaza. So yes, they would benefit from living with equal rights.

@Dazedandcovidconfused

• End of apartheid - give Palestine’s equal rights

Will you be including Jordan and Lebanon too or is this just for Israel?

Yes, this!

But: not just Gaza, also the West Bank. And East Jerusalem. Where Palestinians are not, in fact, 2nd class citizens - because they are not even citizens at all!

And, for that matter: 48 Israel, where they are, in fact, just that!

• end of illegal occupation- roll back the settlements
• End of apartheid - give Palestine’s equal rights
• Stop the genocide immediately - end to the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.

Hope that’s cleared up the confusion for you OP.

Was just about to say the same. Never even entered their what it might mean for Palestinians.

They mean for Israel. Not for Gaza. Palestinians are second class citizens for some

There was a no ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian terrorist groups in effect on Oct 7th. Five pieces of evidence- links to five different conflicts between Israel and Hamas between 13 May 2023 and 6 October 2023 have been provided to you.

YOU don't get to rewrite history to say there was a ceasefire in place officially from 13th May 2023 to 7th October 2023. 🤷‍♂️

There are more strikes from between 13 May 2023 and 7 October 2023 than I originally listed. I forgot two days of bombing in July 2023.

IDF airstrikes on Hamas targets in Gaza 4 July 2023
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-july-4-2023/

IDF airstrikes on Hamas targets in Gaza 5 July 2023
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-strikes-gaza-after-rocket-attacks-as-fighting-shifts-following-jenin-offensive/

Some ceasefire huh?

Those that are saying that a ceasefire could make things worse in the long run must have some imagination because how much fucking worse can it get?!

What is worse than over 10,000 children being killed in 3 months?!

The population in Gaza is on the brink of having mass starvation and deaths caused by one of the worst humanitarian disasters in recent years so I struggle to see how a ceasefire will make their situation worse?!

That’s what the US history books call it. That’s why I capitalised it. It’s not me “sneering,”
https://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/red-scare

Read & Learn.

@DownNative
Let's not deliberately poison the well by confusing these two very different situations.

I agree, so let us stop with the myth of a ceasefire being in place on Oct 7th.

Yes there was a ceasefire on 13 May 2023, but it wasn’t still in place on Oct 7th. Months later? Try 3 days later!

IDF did an airstrike on Gaza three days later on 16 May 2023
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-airstrikes-gaza.html

IDF did airstrikes on Gaza on 21 June 2023
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/15/middleeast/israel-airstrikes-gaza-june-15-intl/index.html

IDF did air strikes on Gaza for three straight days on 22,23 and 24 Sept 2023.
https://www.npr.org/2023/09/24/1201381201/an-israeli-military-raid-has-killed-two-palestinians-in-the-west-bank

All of the above were Israel striking Hamas targets.

Technically you are probably correct DownNative, plus Hamas are* not *involved with the West Bank as far as I’m aware, but I can see how mistreatment and violence directed at the Palestinians there would have people questioning how peaceable Israel’s intentions are.

"If Israel was capable of clearing out Gaza settlers, you cannot plausibly claim that "oh, but, but, but, ... our hands are tied when our citizens terrorise people whom, as the occupier under international law, we are tasked with keeping safe"

Strawman Argument Fallacy. 🤷‍♂️

Acts of violence by one group to another is not prima facie terrorism. As I said, poisoning the well is what you're doing.

"More than 200 Palestinians were killed on the West Bank in 2023 - before 7 October!"

This wasn't in the context of a conflict between a Sovereign Power and a non-governmental group.

Deaths since 7th October 2023 ARE within the context of a conflict between a Sovereign Power and a non-governmental group.

Poisoning the well deliberately. Correlation is not causation. 🤦‍♂️

"If you are, seriously, going to claim "oh, but: not state violence, poor, poor Israel was powerless to stop it [expect of course when it was the army doing the killing, not settlers]" ..."

Strawman Argument Fallacy.

Deaths attributable to a Sovereign Power's military are not necessarily within that of a conflict between themselves and a terrorist group.

Indeed, deaths attributable to legitimate militaries CAN and DO happen in other contexts. E.g., Military Aid To The Civil Power, security operations, etc.

"well, then you better push for international intervention or something! Because a state incapable of stopping rampant violence against one particular group - despite its best efforts - is, essentially, a failed state and in need of urgent assistance (and, no, I do not mean "more free bombs from the USA)."

Strawman Argument Fallacy.

You have utterly failed to argue against the reality there WAS a ceasefire in May 2023 between the State of Israel and Palestinian terrorist groups.

This ceasefire was reported on by various media outlets. I provided the Guardian. Appeal To Emotion Fallacy isn't the way to argue against it. 🤷‍♂️

I repeat 7th October 2023 was a NEW round of conflict.

Is your months long persistence based on pure emotion and logical fallacies a long winded, sneaking regarder way of attempting to minimise the severity of what Hamas did?

Do you accept or not that Hamas has led the people of Gaza and the region to catastrophe?

Exactly what Clinton said to Arafat in 2002 and here we are. Palestinians once again failed by Palestinian leaders who don't really care about them...🤔