Israel/Hamas War - Ceasefire

@1dayatatime i have to agree with you on that.

@Parkingt111

"anyone who says Hamas can be fully defeated is lying"

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On that I think most reasonable people would agree. Of course Israel might be able to "defeat" Hamas but it will simply re appear as Hamas 2.0 or more likely a more extreme PIJ.

A better alternative is to show ordinary Palestinians in Gaza a viable alternative and hope by making the West Bank and Fatah an economic success and at least in the short term stop the building of Israeli settlements in the West Bank (with a view to removing them in the longer term).

@stomachameleon there's also this one which is specifically in related to the hostages

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-said-frittering-away-hostage-deal-by-unilaterally-toughening-demands/

@HeidiInTheBigCity

"If there is no ceasefire then Palestinian civilians will continue to be killed by Israeli forces.

If there is a ceasefire then Israeli civilians will continue to be killed by Hamas."

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So that basis would see calls for a ceasefire now as accepting future and further Israeli civilian deaths and casualties by Hamas as an acceptable price to pay in order to stop Palestinian civilian deaths and casualties today.

Really? Hamas might want the dissolution of Israeli state (which isn't disputed) but can't physically achieve this as they have no army, navy, planes or bombs.
On the other hand, Netanyahu and his colleagues have made quite clear they intentions regarding the Palestinian people, by words and deeds.
Holding a map of Israel where Gaza and the West Bank do not appear is a clear message.

Thanks for signposting those @Parkingt111

Well that doesn't accord with the anti-Palestine posters, does it? Don't you know they're all basically Hamas. Even the babies.

And this one
https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-cracks-widen-in-coalition-national-unity-members-skip-cabinet-meeting/

@stomachameleon I have been reading various articles on times of Israel which has been talking about the growing rift. But you can read the one above I posted

Netanyahu is annoyed and it can be shown in his speech because even other higher ranking ministers are now getting frustrated with him.

@Parkingt111 have you got any direct quotes of them saying they are frustrated with him?

@Humdingerydoo it's not a way one street and they have repeatedly called for if. They have also rejected years of a two state solution.
And of course it's all Netanyahu's fault.

He also says that anyone who says Hamas can be fully defeated is lying. Here's more about the deal he thinks should be negotiated and why for those who are interested

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-challenge-to-pm-eisenkot-says-talk-of-absolute-defeat-of-hamas-a-tall-tale/

Oh and let's not forget, at a time of heightened tensions he also went on to say that hey it's not just me that doesn't want it but most Israelis also don't want a Palestinian state 🤦‍♀️
The man is a idiot, I have seen Eisenkot is calling for another deal to be taken to release the hostages, although not for a permanent ceasefire but approx month long truce

@YetAnotherSpartacus but Netanyahu didn't just say he doesn't want a two state solution because of the October 7th attacks. He made it clear that he has always done everything in his power to prevent there ever being a Palestinian state and will continue to do so.
Netanyahu is annoyed and it can be shown in his speech because even other higher ranking ministers are now getting frustrated with him.

Netanyahu has been in power in Israel for most of the time since 1995. From the BBC article:

Mr Netanyahu has spent much of his political career opposing Palestinian statehood, boasting just last month that he was proud to have prevented its establishment, so his latest remarks come as no surprise.

I'm not. I posted it because of the chat yesterday that implied Hamas were running a terrorist state and that Israel's siege of Gaza was the equivalent of sanctions against North Korea.

Gaza isn't a state, it is a stateless territory. Netanyahu wants to imply Gaza is a state run by Hamas, to justify bombing it and its citizens. But then also say it isn't and never will be a state when a ceasefire is discussed. It's very contradictory of him.

That's just it. The Israelis have a history of being largely positive about a TSS and the Palestinians have a history of largely rejecting it. Hamas want the dissolution of the Israeli state and no one blinks ... When Netanyahu, whatever we might think of him, and I also disagree with him in the main, after provocation of the highest order, says "That won't work" he's called on it and branded anti-Palestine. What do people expect him to do and say given the current context?

While I disagree with Netanyahu on almost everything and I vehemently disagree with his stance on this in particular, I just wanted to point out that Hamas have been calling for the eradication of the state of Israel. So there's no need to try and make out as though this kind of rhetoric is one-sided.

The European Parliament passed a resolution stipulating that any call for a ceasefire in the Hamas-Israel war should be conditional on the dismantling of Hamas and the immediate and unconditional release of all the hostages.

That sounds totally fair and reasonable - and somewhat similar to Canada's excellent statement.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68025945

Hard to see how a ceasefire will work with rhetoric like this

Nobody will ever know what support Hamas had pre 7/10.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah

Though based on a Reuters poll it would be fair to say that the majority of Palestinians support Hamas and support the attacks if 7th October
The fact that recent events have seen support for Hamas rise rather than diminish is no real surprise :/

Glad you corrected that seen as you also pointed out 40% of the population are under 18. I mean that is obviously a lot of ejections since 2005 😁

Gaza is not a state, so you are wrong to say that. If Gaza was a state then Israel could make a case for "regime change" in the way the US did in Iraq, for example. But it isn't.

Also that link doesn't work.