Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Israel/Hamas War - Ceasefire

920 replies

Toggenburgsaregreat · 15/01/2024 10:01

Each Saturday we are seeing demonstrations in London where people are marching with placards and calling for a ceasefire in the Hamas/Israel war.

However, it is difficult to know how the supporters of Palestine think this can be achieved? (Interestingly, no calls for Hamas to cease hostilities and return the hostages were heard - so is this really a call for unilateral disarmament?)

And who should Israel negotiate a ceasefire with? Hamas, ISIS, ISSP, The Muslim Brotherhood - all of these groups/any of these groups?

What is it the supporters of Palestine actually want?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
82
SomeCatFromJapan · 25/01/2024 15:00

Thanks @anotherlevel .

anotherlevel · 25/01/2024 14:16

SomeCatFromJapan · 25/01/2024 14:11

Some twitter reports are stating that the protesters blockading the aid are the families of the hostages. I can't find anything conclusive either way to say they are or they aren't.

Some are and some are not according to this article.

www.timesofisrael.com/for-second-day-in-a-row-protesters-block-aid-reaching-gaza-from-israel/

SomeCatFromJapan · 25/01/2024 14:11

Some twitter reports are stating that the protesters blockading the aid are the families of the hostages. I can't find anything conclusive either way to say they are or they aren't.

PabloPawcasso · 25/01/2024 13:55

Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 11:01

It's a statement of fact in this situation . No more, no less.

Do you have a problem dealing with facts?

"Is this how you see the Gazans? Just collateral damage? Not human beings?"

That is such an asinine question it isn't worthy of reply.

Show quote history

You sound to me very arrogant, high-handed and defensive (sorry to say it but ‘it’s a fact’).

There are ways of describing things, and ‘collateral damage’ is highly euphemistic. We only know what it means ‘death of innocent civilians’ because it’s been translated for us in the past. There is a clear value judgement about the disposability of those lives implicit in the term.

There are many ways these fatalities could have been described, and terming the deaths of 25,000 innocent civilians in in the space of 4 months within a 25 mile strip “collateral damage” is a highly subjective position. Not mere fact.

Auvergne63 · 25/01/2024 12:16

Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 11:27

It seems to me that far too many people are getting overly invested in the Hamas/Israel conflict.

This might be helpful ;-

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/11/24/1214534579/images-war-gaza-israel-vicarious-trauma-stress

especially this paragraph -

  • Keep things in perspective. Remember there are "7 billion people living in this world right now and there are a lot of good things happening," says Javanbakht. "There are Jews and Muslims who are living like normal humans elsewhere."

And that all I have to say on the issue.

Please define "normal" because what is normal to you might not be normal to me.
Could you also explain what an abnormal Jew's and Muslim's life looks like?
Sorry if my questions are asinine.

Parkingt111 · 25/01/2024 11:37

@Toggenburgsaregreat 'there are Jews and Muslims living like normal humans elsewhere' seems quite an offensive thing to say both to Jews and Muslims

Original poster
Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 11:27

It seems to me that far too many people are getting overly invested in the Hamas/Israel conflict.

This might be helpful ;-

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/11/24/1214534579/images-war-gaza-israel-vicarious-trauma-stress

especially this paragraph -

  • Keep things in perspective. Remember there are "7 billion people living in this world right now and there are a lot of good things happening," says Javanbakht. "There are Jews and Muslims who are living like normal humans elsewhere."

And that all I have to say on the issue.

OP posts:
Auvergne63 · 25/01/2024 11:26

Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 11:01

It's a statement of fact in this situation . No more, no less.

Do you have a problem dealing with facts?

"Is this how you see the Gazans? Just collateral damage? Not human beings?"

That is such an asinine question it isn't worthy of reply.

Show quote history

I do not have a problem with facts but I find using the term " collateral damage" when applied to human beings morally wrong, in any context. It's a way of avoiding saying "innocent people are being killed".
You are, in essence, saying that by cutting food aid to Hamas, innocent people will die and so be it.
No question is "asinine". This is something that I always taught my pupils and that I live by.

Original poster
Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 11:01

Auvergne63 · 25/01/2024 09:32

The Gazans are 'collateral damage' in this exercise.
Is this how you see the Gazans? Just collateral damage? Not human beings? I am speechless.

It's a statement of fact in this situation . No more, no less.

Do you have a problem dealing with facts?

"Is this how you see the Gazans? Just collateral damage? Not human beings?"

That is such an asinine question it isn't worthy of reply.

OP posts:
anotherlevel · 25/01/2024 10:58

The protest DID happen.

They blocked aid getting in.

Delayed them all.

Only 9 got through out of the lot. Some were rerouted and got In. Not all.

The rally was unauthorised.

Innocent civilians were the ones that suffered the consequences of this protest.

ConnieCounter · 25/01/2024 10:54

Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 10:52

"The protesters are not blocking Aid to Gazans per se. "

What is it you don't understand about this sentence?

Show quote history

Sigh.

In that sentence you express an opinion that the protesters are not blocking aid to Gazans as such.

That does not prove your point. This is ridiculous.

Original poster
Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 10:52

ConnieCounter · 25/01/2024 10:34

You literally don't say anything in the post I quoted about it being your opinion of the motivation of the protesters. It reads as your own opinion.

Show quote history

"The protesters are not blocking Aid to Gazans per se. "

What is it you don't understand about this sentence?

OP posts:
ConnieCounter · 25/01/2024 10:34

Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 10:10

@ConnieCounter "this is where you justified it. It's OK to block the aid because in your head Hamas will take it so it's fine to block aid from a starving population."

I never said that at all or that it was 'OK' , please read my answer again. I said that was IMO the motivation of these protesters. Please stop putting words in my mouth to justify your own viewpoint.

You literally don't say anything in the post I quoted about it being your opinion of the motivation of the protesters. It reads as your own opinion.

Original poster
Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 10:30

@ConnieCounter "Israel controls what passes through Rafah too. Let's not pretend otherwise."

It is not a normal border.
Under a 2007 agreement between Egypt and Israel, Egypt controls the crossing but imports through the Rafah crossing require Israeli approval.

I have never denied this.

OP posts:
Original poster
Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 10:13

@ConnieCounter "It's well documented and I'm pretty sure it's a war crime."

Well if it is, then it will be investigated by the ICC.

OP posts:
Original poster
Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 10:10

@ConnieCounter "this is where you justified it. It's OK to block the aid because in your head Hamas will take it so it's fine to block aid from a starving population."

I never said that at all or that it was 'OK' , please read my answer again. I said that was IMO the motivation of these protesters. Please stop putting words in my mouth to justify your own viewpoint.

OP posts:
ConnieCounter · 25/01/2024 10:08

"Delays have happened for a number of reasons, mainly a lack of fuel or communications lines at times needed to distribute aid inside Gaza.

What have I missed?" @Toggenburgsaregreat

Just the part where Israeli authorities frustrate all attempts to bring aid in. It's well documented and I'm pretty sure it's a war crime.

Original poster
Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 10:07

@PabloPawcasso" Yes I do think we should take in refugees from Gaza – just as we have done from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia and Ukraine."

And do you think Hamas would let them leave?

They need their population as 'human shields'.

OP posts:
ConnieCounter · 25/01/2024 10:05

"The protesters are not blocking Aid to Gazans per se. They are blocking aid to Hamas, who, as we know, purloins Aid for it's own purposes. The Gazans are 'collateral damage' in this exercise."

@Toggenburgsaregreat this is where you justified it. It's OK to block the aid because in your head Hamas will take it so it's fine to block aid from a starving population.

Israel controls what passes through Rafah too. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Original poster
Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 10:04

Parkingt111 · 25/01/2024 09:54

@Toggenburgsaregreat I think you should read up about aid and the Rafah crossing and where the vast majority of the aid has been passing through since the start of the war.

I have done, and I understand that Israel has to check that arms are not being smuggled through that can be used by Hamas.

Some of this aid going into Gaza comes directly from Egypt and some is flown in from around the world, landing at a small logistical airport in the Egyptian city of Al-Arish. That cargo is loaded onto trucks that wait, sometimes for days, before entering Rafah. Delays have happened for a number of reasons, mainly a lack of fuel or communications lines at times needed to distribute aid inside Gaza.

What have I missed?

OP posts:
Original poster
Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 09:58

ConnieCounter · 25/01/2024 09:43

This post is outrageous. Justifying the blocking of aid to a starving and beseiged population.

This place has gone to the dogs.

Show quote history

"Justifying the blocking of aid to a starving and beseiged population."

I did not say that. I responded to another post who haske me for motivation.

The Rafah crossing is still operational, so please lose all this emotive and inaccurate rhetoric about being 'beseiged'.

OP posts:
Parkingt111 · 25/01/2024 09:54

@Toggenburgsaregreat I think you should read up about aid and the Rafah crossing and where the vast majority of the aid has been passing through since the start of the war.

ConnieCounter · 25/01/2024 09:43

Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 09:28

"Al Jazeera is a reputable news source, hardly a "mouthpiece of Hamas" and I have a bridge I can sell you.
It's funded by Qatar and spews out anti-Israeli rhetoric most nights.

The protesters are not blocking Aid to Gazans per se. They are blocking aid to Hamas, who, as we know, purloins Aid for it's own purposes. The Gazans are 'collateral damage' in this exercise.

The solution is to send Aid via the Rafah crossing, but that requires negotiations with Egypt. We all know how keen Eqypt is to open the gates there (sarcasm).

"Who are the protesters hoping will be influenced by the protest?" And that brings us back to the title of this thread.

Show quote history

This post is outrageous. Justifying the blocking of aid to a starving and beseiged population.

This place has gone to the dogs.

Efacsen · 25/01/2024 09:34

Toggenburgsaregreat · 25/01/2024 09:28

"Al Jazeera is a reputable news source, hardly a "mouthpiece of Hamas" and I have a bridge I can sell you.
It's funded by Qatar and spews out anti-Israeli rhetoric most nights.

The protesters are not blocking Aid to Gazans per se. They are blocking aid to Hamas, who, as we know, purloins Aid for it's own purposes. The Gazans are 'collateral damage' in this exercise.

The solution is to send Aid via the Rafah crossing, but that requires negotiations with Egypt. We all know how keen Eqypt is to open the gates there (sarcasm).

"Who are the protesters hoping will be influenced by the protest?" And that brings us back to the title of this thread.

Show quote history

Ugh - what a horribly ignorant mis-informed post

Hiding this highly unpleasant thread

Auvergne63 · 25/01/2024 09:32

The Gazans are 'collateral damage' in this exercise.
Is this how you see the Gazans? Just collateral damage? Not human beings? I am speechless.

Swipe left for the next trending thread