ICJ: SA Genocide Case vs. ISR - part 2

Incredible mental gymnastics from you “ignore those nutters over there - they’re just part of the government” Doesn’t wash does it? The whole world is seeing through this abhorrent facade.

Bad news on that compliance thing given Israel and the US reckon Israel just got exonerated of any wrong doing today...

EDIT: Also forgot that The Hague Act is a thing in the US, which may apply to Israeli folk too.

If Israel complies...

President Herzog post judgment: "Hague Shmague"

Netanahyu pre judgment: "Nobody will stop us — not The Hague, not the axis of evil and not anybody else".

i hope - but doubt - they will

The most important thing is that I Israel complies, there will effectively be a humanitarian pause that will save innocent lives. If so, I hope it also creates a chance for successful hostage negotiations and opens a space to move forward generally. Well done South Africa !

Fair point - though courtesy of the court, we can say 'frothing at the mouth genoicde inciting authoritarians'

Even most pro Israelis think Likud are arseholes tbf.

Likud is composed only of frothing at the mouth right-wing authoritarians.

People defending them are along the same likes of those who think the EDL should have a fair crack of the whip of governing in the UK. They just don't see it because of other blinkers, namely how we're all supposed to back up Israel on everything they do because they're so beautiful and true and can do no wrong, unlike the hateful Arab nations, cruelly surrounding them and continuing to exist.

Nope - the court judgment specifically identified that the genocidal statements were by those in the heart of government, not fringe actors - for example:

• President Herzog
• Yoav Gallant, Defence Minister of Israel
• Israel Katz, Minister of Energy and Infrastructure of Israel

@HeidiInTheBigCity that's really why I'd like to wait for the full verdict, as I'd expect the court to examine the evidence properly.
What I've read to date suggests that Herzi Halevi and Netanyahu don't exactly get on or see eye to eye but how that has tranlated operationally I obviously have no idea and that will be for the ICJ to determine.

John Kirby doing a White House Briefing, he's on at 32mins. Not as smooth as usual.

You see I wonder what Israel winning and Gaza losing looks like, I mean to most people hasn’t Gaza already lost? The academic stated winning in Gaza and not winning against Hamas btw.

It's more than I was honestly expecting. I'm cautiously optimistic, since this didn't get thrown out, that we may have grounds for a full investigation to manifest later down the road. If that isn't something to make certain leaders sweat, then really it does come down to knowing international law is a sham, always has been, and was always just a cudgel to bash over lesser nations when they don't know their place.

Aren't some of them ministers in the government though? They're hardly just random nutter politicians. They're in the government. At the cabinet table presumably.

From what I’ve read many people in Gaza don’t feel like they won as they were hoping for an immediate ceasefire. I wonder how many children will die or be orphaned tonight.
Still, no matter how much the Israeli government might want to pretend its business as usual, the cracks are there.

SomeCatFromJapan you say it’s not about winning then post someone who says it all about Israel winning?

I wouldn't necessarily have phrased it quite like that if I'd been the author of the tweet, admittedly.

No it’s not a sports event. You know who will win from today’s verdict.? Palestinians who won’t die if Israel stops killing indiscriminately and protects civilians lives as ICJ is concerned that genocide might be committing. That for me it’s the win on today’s verdict.

It's obviously a very fair judgement by the ICJ though as both sides think they "won".
Now let's hope the Israelis do change tack as a result. It will be interesting to see if their western allies stop supplying arms

I'm not sure I buy that, some of these statements have come from members of the war cabinet. It's pretty serious they've been told it's incitement to genocide.

SomeCatFromJapan you say it’s not about winning then post someone who says it all about Israel winning? 😕

How can this person say there is no genocide, but there is incitement to genocide?

The incitement is from the extreme right-wing nutters in Netanyahu's coalition with their inflammatory statements, but I don't think there's any suggestion that the IDF have acted on it, it's not like they'd be taking direct orders from random politicians.

From that tweet:
It ordered Israel to take steps to prevent and punish incitement to genocide against the Palestinians. This has been a genuine problem in Israel and must be addressed (16 votes to 1).

How can this person say there is no genocide, but there is incitement to genocide?

Canada comments:

January 26, 2024 - Ottawa, Ontario - Global Affairs Canada
The Honourable Mélanie Joly, Minister of Foreign Affairs today issued the following statement:
“Today, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) delivered its response to South Africa’s request for provisional measures in their case against Israel.
“Canada supports the ICJ’s critical role in the peaceful settlement of disputes and its work in upholding the international rules-based order.
“Our support for the ICJ does not mean that we accept the premise of the case brought by South Africa. It is for the ICJ to make a final decision on the case, which it has not done today. We continue to follow the case very closely.
“Canada will continue to support Israel’s right to exist and defend itself, in accordance with international law. Nothing can justify Hamas’ brutal attacks on October 7, including the appalling loss of life, and the heinous acts of violence perpetrated in those attacks, including sexual violence.
“Canada remains deeply concerned about the scale of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and the ongoing and serious impacts on Palestinian civilians. Canada continues to support urgent international efforts towards a sustainable ceasefire. This cannot be one-sided. Hamas must release all hostages, stop using Palestinian civilians as human shields, and lay down its arms.
“Parties to any conflict must protect civilians and respect international law. They are obligated to allow and facilitate the rapid and unimpeded access of essential humanitarian relief for civilians. Humanitarian access must urgently be increased and sustained in Gaza.”

As I stated earlier, I just don't think the interim ruling was in any way surprising so not a huge amount to discuss until the final ruling.
It's got nothing to do with who "won", it's not a sports event.

I largely agree with the summary in this tweet.
https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1750924794768535582