The Nakba of 1948

I never answered because you didn't. I'm surprised you actually did this time, must be a first for you.

I lean towards the idea of the democratically elected government being democratically voted out.

If the Jews are expected to stop "weaponising" the Holocaust, perhaps the Palestinians should stop "weaponising" the Nakba? Something to consider.

Palestine being a perpetual refugee state suits certain global/Middle Eastern agendas. Something else to consider.

@GaterGame

No I’m not.

You haven’t answered either. Tricky isn’t it?

The Israeli government responded to the Hamas terrorists by killing thousands of their innocent countrymen, women and children.

Israel and the US seem to feel that the Israeli government should be punished for their terrorism by maybe being voted out at some point.

South Africa is taking them to the International criminal court.

I’d probably go with option 3.

What about you?

1. Do you need to have a state in order to have an identity? The Travellers (both Irish/English) have never had a state, they are widely recognized as having a very particular identity and way of life,to the extent that they are protected groups within UK law.

2.They are internally displaced people, as recognized by international law. Under the 1951 Convention they are only Refugees once they have had to leave their home. Due to the unique situation it isn't actually possible to do that.

3.You are really clutching at straws here. Under the Asylum act (which grants refugee status) it doesn't really matter semantically. The reality was that the Palestinian people were forced out. It doesn't really make a difference if a few of them had money to go on a plane somewhere - they either stayed and were under imminent threat of death or they left. They are all considered refugees.

1. WTAF? You cannot defy international law and attempt to make it the problem/fault of neighbouring states.

Just come out and say it, you don't think Palestinians have any right to live in their own land.

.1948 it was by and large an empty country what sort of materials do you read 😵‍💫?

in the late 1800 the Lumiere brothers made a film about Palestine , they’ve been to Yaffa, Jerusalem , Nablus.

, yaffa was a big bustling port. Do you know of the Yaffa citrus industry?

And do you think there should be one rule for one killer of innocent people and another ru

Sorry what? Was that aimed at me?

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The Hague

Well Israel clearly has a view on how to respond to terrorists. Not a view I would agree with - killing thousands of innocent people - but apparently 70% of Israeli voters support the current military response.

How do YOU think extremists who murder innocent people should be dealt with?

But there was no Isreal , you can’t create a sovereign country out of other peoples land.

The Palestians were displaced in 1948 as a consequence of declaring war on Israel. You can't join up with your mates to attack your neighbour and then bleat and play the victim when you get beaten.

Yes. What Putin has done to Ukraine is abhorrent. However, I can oppose his invasion, but still think that the displaced refugees should be treated with humanity and not herded into a refugee camp on the border. They should be allowed to become full citizens of the country they are in, the same as anyone else.

Or do you think that we also should have kept the Ukrainians in refugee camps or otherwise Putin ‘would win’? Our humanity is better than that.

So how do you think the Israeli government should be punished and by whom?

Both Hamas and the Israeli government are extremist leaderships who have murdered many innocent people. There should be parity in how they are viewed and punished.

However, we still need to address the inhumanity of the neighbouring countries to the Palestinians. Ukranian refugees who come to the U.K. and the rest of Europe are allowed to become citizens and develop new lives.
you are comparing western and northern Europe GDPs with Jordan an Egypt?

Im not sure what you are suggesting? I hope the current Israeli government are voted out and a more moderate government installed. What do you think ?
I also want Hamas to be removed from power .
I don’t know how either of these can be achieved.
I do know that the more extreme Hamas becomes - the more the Israelis will look for an aggressive and “tough” government response.
Likewise the more extreme the government response the more extreme Hamas becomes…
And so it goes on .
That is why the only hope is to break the cycle . How do we do that? Is it even possible?

I totally agree that Israel’s current actions are totally counterproductive and that what is happening in both the West Bank (the settlements) and in Gaza is a crime.

However, we still need to address the inhumanity of the neighbouring countries to the Palestinians. Ukranian refugees who come to the U.K. and the rest of Europe are allowed to become citizens and develop new lives.

Europe does not build refugee camps for Ukrainians on the Polish border and deny them citizenship while they wait to return.

It is inhumane what the neighbouring states have put the Palestinian people through since 1948. Why is there not an outcry that people who are born, grown up and live their whole lives in a country are denied citizenship or passports?

I agree that taking revenge by murdering innocent civilians and children is criminal and abhorrent. What should happen to the current Israeli government for these actions?

I read on here a couple of months ago (can't find it now, or when it has a source) that 70 something % of Hamas fighters have had a parent killed by Israel.

Again, it's not an excuse, or justification. More am illustration of the cycle of violence. Of course a proportion of young men who have lost parents will seek revenge and Hamas welcomes them...

The more children that are orphaned, or who are their siblings killed, their friends etc, the more angry young men there will be in the future. Their anger and wish for resistance is valid. Turning to terror is not.

And yes, you can get rid of Hamas, but what about Hamas 2, or 3 etc. You can't bomb anger out of an opposed population. All you do is recruit for the Hamas of the future.

Thanks so much for posting this thread, so many people didn’t know the full history of Palestine and still think this all started in a vacuum on 7 Oct.

Absolutely 💯