Towards a sustainable peace

I know Israel will be biased towards Israel 🙄 Stop talking to people as though they're idiots, it's quite unpleasant.

I agree with the rest of your comment though. At the moment, if Palestinians were allowed a vote they'd vote for Hamas or a group with similar genocidal intentions towards Israel. That's obviously not going to lead to sustainable peace.

I don't know what the answer is and I hate the idea of them not having autonomy for even longer. I just don't know how else things can possibly move forward. It's a truly fucked up situation.

I agree with @EasterIssland and @Scirocco that Israel should not be part of Gaza in any way after the war.
International peace keepers that are a combination of countries who have Israel and Gaza's best interests at heart could be a starting point temporarily until a new election and Gaza can be self governing

I have seen the way the IDF treat the Palestinians in the occupied territories which in itself is a boiling pot which could explode. The IDF in Gaza again would be no different.

Bearing in mind UN being solely in charge of security wouldn't be an appropriate option either because of their bias.
If you’re worried about bias then Israel being in charge isn’t great either. Fairly certain Israel is biased towards Israel.
If we want to be realistic about this the Palestinian territories are probably not stable enough to self rule. You can’t just go from being controlled by other agencies (Israel, Hamas) to autonomy. Some form of intervention from the UN probably would be necessary.

There are political differences between people in all countries.

Given that Gaza has been largely pulverised and large chunks of the West Bank are under occupation, independent peacekeepers would probably be the best option to oversee rebuilding and free elections.

One of the big challenges facing government of Palestine is that people can't freely travel or build connections between the West Bank and Gaza - allowing better communication and travel (with appropriate systems in place) would aid in reducing senses of isolation and rejection which can leave people vulnerable to extreme influences.

International, independent peacekeepers would be an option to help stabilise peace and help Palestine rebuild and establish new systems. I appreciate that some people have expressed concerns about the UN, but it's worth remembering that their security council spent a very long time refusing to issue even a resolution calling for humanitarian aid and one of the main powers in the UN is the US, which is very clear about its own preferences in this situation. I personally don't like the idea of UN leadership because the US has demonstrated they can unilaterally prevent action and that they are not impartial, and because Palestine should be governed by Palestine.

One country having control of another country's security is not a recipe for peace. It doesn't respect sovereignty.

As this is a thread about sustainable peace, I implore you to try and think of it from Israel's point of view for just one second. There will be no sustainable peace if Israel doesn't feel safe. That's just a fact. So what do you suggest? Bearing in mind UN being solely in charge of security wouldn't be an appropriate option either because of their bias.

I am not trying to be goady or antagonistic in any way. I genuinely just don't understand how there will be sustainable peace if Israel feels unsafe. That doesn't meant I put Israel's wants, needs or well-being ahead of that of the Palestinians, I am just being realistic. Maybe some kind of army that isn't made up of Israelis but still sort of controlled by Israel if that makes sense?

I read about this again yesterday and I don’t think it’s a good idea. Israel should have 0 control over Gaza / Palestine in any way
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/05/israel-defence-minister-yoav-gallant-gaza-plan-after-war-hamas-palestine-control-antony-blinken-visit

Exactly.
i saw a video yesterday about an omani enclave inside UAE and inside this Oman enclave there is an UAE enclave
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madha

The Gaza Strip is part of Palestine. So its capital would be the same as the capital of the rest of Palestine.

Just like the capital of Kaliningrad is the same as the capital of the rest of Russia.

Being an exclave doesn't change a territory's status as part of a country.

I think our definition of "resistance" might differ quite a lot. Shooting unarmed civilians on buses doesn't seem so much resistance as it does terrorism.

Anyway, yes, it wasn't me pretending the attack on the King David Hotel was by Palestinians, that was the other poster trying to be funny. I tend not to rewrite history like that.

Strike that ... misunderstood you and wrongly understood that you were saying King David was a Palestinian attack against Israelis.

And, yes, of course there was Palestinian resistance, including armed resistance, before 67. Hundreds of thousands had been forcibly evicted from their homes, after all!

No, like all the other attacks by Palestinians on Israelis that happened before 1967. Unsure if you're trying to pretend they never happened or just trying to be funny?

Hmmm…. like the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 ?

And this a a fundamental problem as the people of Gaza are not allowed to travel between the West Bank and back, they can’t see friends and family as they can’t get out of Gaza, I’m not just talking about since oct 07, this is their reality.

If anyone is interested sky has also posted today on their live feed, from their military analysts take on Yoav Gallants speech yesterday regarding the day after. I found it quite a informative read

Blinken is on his way to Israel and other countries in the middle east right now so we may hear more on the US position on 'the day after'

This is what starmer had to say from sky

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has said that Israel should not be the sole party responsible for dictating what happens in the so-called "day after" in Gaza.
Asked about the plans by LBC, Sir Keir said: "We cannot have Israeli occupation, we cannot have people displaced who cannot go back to where they came, because two million have been displaced in the last four months, that is intolerable."
He added: "I don't think, frankly, it is for Israel to determine what happens in Gaza. There has got to be much more international agreement on this, otherwise it simply isn't going to work."
He suggested leaders in Jordan, Qatar and other Arab states should be involved in finding a peace solution and discussing the day after.
He also called once again for a two-state solution.

Tell me how you know nothing about the politics of the area without telling me.

East Jerusalem is Palestinian territory, as is the West Bank.

All your views @mids2019 are totally one sided and you don’t appear to have a clue about the settler situation and illegally occupied territories.

Israeli calls for Gaza’s ethnic cleansing are only getting louder
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/01/05/wv-israel-hamas/

You "have no idea" but you "sort of suspect" isn't good enough, to be honest. I hope you see that.
Not really* *

It is Netanyahu's Likud policy to expand settlements in the WB, and to avoid a Palestinian state from the sea to the river Jordan. Everyone knows that. Meretz has a more progressive 2 state policy, but I don't think they have any seats in the Knesset.

I know who settlers are, thanks. Other posters seem to think any Jew in the middle east is a settler though, and it's winding me up. You "have no idea" but you "sort of suspect" isn't good enough, to be honest. I hope you see that.

And yes, @Parkingt111 I am very much against illegal settlements, illegal settlers and any violence they use. People (to be clear, in this case I'm talking about Palestinians) shouldn't be killed or threatened for anything, let alone for just existing. But according to another poster, that's apparently not what I think and I actually think settlers are great 👍🏻🤦🏻‍♀️

No, it has not been policy or de facto policy for decades. Just because you say something doesn't make it true.

Did you know that Jews used to live in Gaza? And I don't mean settlers. There's a synagogue there that's over 1500 years old. Just, you know, if you want to talk about ethnic cleansing

Settlers refers to Israeli’s who build settlements in the occupied territories (Gaza and the West Bank). It doesn’t have much to do with who lived where prior to 1948.

I have no idea whether the behaviour described in the blog is condoned by the authorities but I sort of suspect it is really. The government is itself largely right wing and the IDF allegedly treats its detainees in a similar manner.