Towards a sustainable peace

Jesus. We were talking about post conflict decommissioning. You made out that only the IRA were disarmed after the war. The soldiers posted to the north because of the conflict left in 2007! So both sides were "disarmed" for want of a better word.

I'm not arguing with you any more. It's ridiculous.

"No such explicit commitment in the signed agreements" in terms of the settlements.

Balanced view here from both sides. Worth reading. Jewish site - no what? It's a fair and balanced view as much as Al Jazeerah is.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/why-the-oslo-accords-failed/

Disingenuous!

You claimed the British Army LEFT.

I showed they did not as they still have bases here and still actively operate via SAS and SRR.

And it's embarrassing to call it a war too. It was a terrorist campaign of violence.

Yet I'm not incorrect! Operation Banner itself IS over and Bessbrook is empty of soldiers.

But Palace and Thiepval Barracks are still British Army bases in Northern Ireland in addition to an Mi5 base.

Attachment from your own link. As I said, you've a funny concept of what leaving is....🤣

Yes like anywhere else in Britain. The North is part of the UK so like any country on earth there'll be some sort of army presence.

The wartime presence ended in 2007 and the IRA decommissioned. So both sides disarmed after the war. I don't know why you're arguing with me.

Because, as you know, Palestine's militants would carry out unprovoked attacks on the Jewish state next door as they want them gone.

Simple.

Palestine will be disarmed and we should then have a lasting peace. It's the only way.

@Babyboomtastic I like the idea. It's a bit like gun ownership. When guns are more available you get more shootings. I agree it won't happen, but I think it's the best option to reduce the violence overall. Plus the invasion of the WB would be hard to enforce without the army, which means there's less reason for violence there.

Oops, attached now.

And let's not forget that many would argue Netanyahu was largely responsible for creating the political environment that fueled Rabin's assassination. He did and said some spectacularly inflammatory things both before and after. The Palestinians need a leadership that will negotiate with their best interests at heart and a commitment to peace, but Netanyahu has consistently derailed any attempts at peace and actively fueled division and conflict, never mind his current actions. He needs to go if there is to be any chance of peace (ideally to the Hague).

It's OK to admit you said something that's incorrect you know.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Banner

Thanks for proving my point that the British Army never left Northern Ireland.

Next time...read your own links beyond the headline! 🤦‍♂️

Sorry might have tagged the wrong poster there.

On the contrary, what I've said about Northern Ireland is easily checkable. You can look up Palace Barracks and Thiepval Barracks yourself online.

Or alternatively come to Northern Ireland to see the bases for yourself. You won't get in without security clearance and soldiers are positioned at the entrance.

So the British Army still has bases in Northern Ireland and is actively deployed whenever required too. Between 2014 and 2017, SAS and SRR were deployed undercover against dissident Irish Republicans terrorist groups.

You've got a very funny definition of leaving....🤣🤦‍♂️

Then why shouldn’t Palestine have similar military powers ? Why should they live I fear of Israel controlling their air and sea borders, taking more and more of their land with the settlers and their violent ways. People need to understand the complete one sidedness of this situation, until this is recognised and reviewed sadly nothing will change.

Ok, so want peace but don't want parity?
Can you see how that wouldn't go down well?

Don't you see that Israel in charge of Gazas security is like leaving Hamas in charge in Israel's security? You can't leave the victims of violence with their aggressors/oppressors on either side and work towards peace.

You can't bomb a people into truly accepting subjugation. The military side of enforcing peace on both sides would best be removed from the equation. A coalition of military support could defer other countries from taking advantage, and Israel could do be permitted to keep it's military for external use, should it be attacked

And yes, I agree it's never going to happen. That doesn't stop it being a way to defuse a lot of the anger and pave a way forward for peace.

This isn't the thread for this discussion but you often misrepresent what happened in the North and to say that the British army didn't leave is just false.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/aug/01/northernireland.military

The British didn’t slaughter thousands of innocent Irish children though, did they?

Christ! I really, really despair at the lack of knowledge and education here! 🤦‍♂️

No, PIRA was made to decommission as it wasn't doing so willingly. Its no coincidence they did so in October 2001 after pressure by the USA, UK and ROI Governments given the global war on terror.

And the British Army has never left Northern Ireland. The army is still here in garrison numbers in the same way it is in Great Britain - and the same numbers as before the Troubles as well. The British Army still retains their bases in Palace Barracks, Holywood and Thiepval Barracks, Lisburn. Palace Barracks is also the biggest and most important Mi5 base in the UK outside of London.

I'll repeat here what I've said many times - the Provos didn't achieve any of their long held key core demands in the Belfast Agreement. The British Government, on the other hand, achieved the demands they've had since 1920.

And no matter which way you look at it, slaughtering thousands of innocent children can never be justified.

Arafat agreed to terms with Rabin in 1993.
However Israel reneged on its promise to withdraw illegal settlements.
Then Rabin was assassinated in 1995.
And the settlers ramped up their violent illegal land stealing.
That is why the peace deal failed.

No, it doesn't. That poster very clearly stated Israel should be demilitarised. In other words, Israel to have zero military power which is a completely ridiculous suggestion!

Their words are very plain and there's no room for "interpretations" such as yours. 🤷‍♂️

@DownNative the IRA decommissioned and the British army left. It wasn't just one side.

On the contrary, there doesn't have to be fairness in any deal and we've modern examples of that too.

Oh, so decades of Palestinian terrorism within and outwith Israeli borders has nothing to do with it?

The Palestinian suicide bombers in the 1990s has nothing to do with it?

The fact Palestinian leaders including Hamas, Arafat and others rejected every possible peace settlement has nothing to do with it? Palestinians have been failed by their own leaders who feather their own nests, live in a way they can only dream of and who use ordinary Palestinian hardships for their own political agenda.

Rejecting various deals eventually leads you to a dead end, loss of friends and loss of any kind of power.

Clinton wasn't wrong in what he said to Arafat.

@DownNative I think that means the continued invasion of the WB, then. As well as evictions in East Jerusalem and regular bombing of Gaza. Which means continued war. The Palestinians are not going to die quietly.

Yes, there has to be fairness and parity. Not one side completely dominating and bullying the other.

Thanks to those posters who have pointed out yet again that it is not Palestine that caused an end to peace talks. Rather the assassination of Rabin, the rise of Netanyahu and the increasingly violent settlers which put a stop to years of talks and potential compromise.