Anti-Palestinian and anti-Israeli rhetoric

Thank you for starting this thread OP. Much needed. I stopped posting on this board some time ago, as I found the entrenched, often prejudiced, arguments from both sides so depressing. I think the majority of people really do feel sorry for the innocents in both Israel and Gaza, but the loudest voices are the partisan ones, and ours are less easily heard. When October 7th happened I really felt for all the innocent Israeli and other victims (still do) then when the right-wing Israeli government went crazy in Gaza, I felt and still feel so upset about the plight of Palestinians there. If I voice either thing to a biased person (sometimes understandable bias based on background) it can be tricky. So I've started keeping a lot of it to myself, as I'm terrified of saying the wrong thing to the wrong person. So your thread is a breath of fresh air x

I think it's important to remember that being pro something doesn't automatically mean you're anti something else. Being pro-Israel doesn't by default make you anti-Palestine or vice versa
I'd agree with this and also think the same works when it comes to be critical too.
Being critical of the actions of a government or group and having concerns about the lasting harm of their actions or policy on civilians does not equal wishing harm on civilians.
Agreeing with a group/government on one topic does not equal agreeing with them on all topics, just like criticising a group/government on one topic does not mean hating them or disagreeing on all other topics.

When people get wedded to a set position and their 'side' being right, all other views are immediately viewed as a threat.

exactly this! it's ridiculous.

I think it's important to remember that being pro something doesn't automatically mean you're anti something else. Being pro-Israel doesn't by default make you anti-Palestine or vice versa

I think this entire board and most of its posts are based on that assumption tbh. That and assuming everyone who disagrees with you must be bigoted/thick/evil/racist/a terrorist/supporting genocide (delete as applicable).

This is pretty much where I'm coming from too. I think it's quite hard on here to have more nuanced or moderate views on Israel/Palestine, both in the current conflict and more generally, because like you say people put words in your mouth and a lot of posters demand some kind of binary 'take a side' approach. So I tend to not comment on the conflict and focus more on antisemitism.

Good post and I totally agree with you about everything

Yes mandatory conscription is not unusual in a lot of other countries. My friend that is Barcelonian had to do his bit in Spain years ago. I think they have ended that in 2001. However many other places still have it.

I think it's important to remember that being pro something doesn't automatically mean you're anti something else. Being pro-Israel doesn't by default make you anti-Palestine or vice versa. They're not two opposite things. I'm pro-Israel in the sense that I want Israel to exist, but I'm also pro a two state solution and illegal settlers being kicked out of the West Bank. I'm reluctant to say I'm pro-Palestinian because I don't want people to feel like I'm trying to misappropriate 'their' word but I very much am all for there being a state of Palestine and peace in the region. I am not alone in thinking like this. The difference is more about what we feel is the right approach to achieve this, which is where people start putting words in other peoples' mouths and the mud slinging really kicks off.

With regards to mandatory conscription, it's not as unusual as you might think. Even Sweden has it.

yes agree with this. I will always support innocent civilians from both sides caught up in this.

They do not blame Palestinians for the actions of Hamas, not do they blame Israeli citizens who are mandated to serve in the Israeli army for the decisions of Netanyahu's government.
I feel awful for Israeli citizens who are caught up like this. There seems to be a lot of different views within Israeli society, and not everyone agrees with the land grabbing and violence of illegal settlements or the government's approach.

Independent of the recent conflict, part of me has sometimes wondered whether the right wing politicians and media add fuel and propaganda to an already intensely messed up situation to try and maintain a steady stream of willing hearts and minds who will embrace their military service, or at the very least to reduce the chances of civilians rising up and saying "enough". Having to be conscripted and then on reserve for several decades after must be awful for people who know how hostile the situation is and yet they spend their adult lives at the mercy of someone in government not doing something stupid.

Edit to add - I agree with the OP that the Palestinian civilians and Israeli citizens deserve peace. They're caught up as victims in someone else's games.

Only just seen this thread. I think most people are now just looking at the threads they are on plus bisy with Christmas/New Year, kids off school etc. Most the threads seem more quiet in the least few days as well. I suppose some also going to try and not to be on mumsnet as much in 2024. Those resolutions don't normally last long. You may get more uptake in a few days time. Should perhaps bump the thread up a couple of times then if still quiet.

There have been some reports alleging that parts of the Israeli government/forces had previously learned of plans/strategy for similar attacks but may have dismissed it as being unrealistic and beyond Hamas's capabilities... If that's the case, their intelligence network may come in for some criticism when things are looked into, in time. What a horrible thing to have potentially got wrong.

Ha! Well this is a prime example of exactly what the OP is talking about.

Very droll @ThinkIAteACementMixerLastNight

Hi @WibbleWobbleFlop

sharing a new year message which I hope will resonate with all on this thread

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1h00xht1QO/?igsh=MTA2MG14Z2cyYXZreg==

I hope its OK to add on here that there is a AMA by a Israeli citizen which I found very insightful

I’m not ignoring this thread, I’m reading and taking on board what people are saying.

Same for me in regards to this
The horrifying realisation for many at not only what had been done, but also at what was to come although I don't think even they anticipated the response we are witnessing now.

Thank you, @WibbleWobbleFlop

Hello OP
Thank you so much for this thread
I have been reading your posts on various threads and i agree with just about everything that you write on all the different topics on this board.

Well…look's like this thread is just going to be ignored while everyone carry’s on with their mud slinging.

At least you tried OP 🤷‍♀️