Page 5 | I feel sick (serious trigger warning)

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 15:14

crowstreet · 30/12/2023 14:30

Thank you for posting this, OP. I've read that article on the evening it was published and I'm still haunted by the details. Did set up a mumsnet account just to publish the link, but couldn't find words to do it.

This report https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/12/22/world/europe/beeri-massacre.html?searchResultPosition=2 is also harrowing.

It's beyond me why most media kept silent about it, even though the scale of atrocities was known pretty much from day one. Even the bloody UN took all the time it could!
I find it sickening that degenerate criminals who in any civilised society would rot behind bars are glorified by some as 'freedom fighters'. Sinwar seems to love mentioning martyrdom -- the real martyrs were those women, not lowlifes who robbed them of life and dignity.

My heart goes to the families of the victims, and to ZAKA members and first responders at the scene. Words fail me here.

Thank you

It is the people that go an extra bit further to highlight or support (such as yourself creating an account just to make comment or a link) that give me some hope others see what I see. Sometimes on here it feels like only a handful of us mostly Jewish mumsneters care about what happened to these people. Even then we get told not to talk about it or antisemitism rising because others have it worse or stuff like that.

BigFrau · 30/12/2023 15:09

Another one 🙄

And FYI that very phrase has been said many times, albeit not on MN.
But well done for scoring your point on such a thread as this. 👏

Anotherdayanotherdiet · 30/12/2023 15:05

Sorry but we all know this. You are just doing whataboutism now

Well we all know about the mass rapes don’t we? At least no-ones said “terribly sad but these things happen in war” which is the line that’s usually trotted out when reference is made to the death toll in Gaza.

Murica · 30/12/2023 14:57

I haven't read the full article yet, it's too upsetting to read all at once.
One thing I find especially frustrating about the deniers and the minimizers and the apologists, is that had they or their loved ones been there that day, they would have suffered the same fate. The terrorists didn't ask anyone their ethnic background, religion, politics or national origin before murdering and raping and torturing. It could have been you!

crowstreet · 30/12/2023 14:31

Exactly this.

crowstreet · 30/12/2023 14:30

Thank you for posting this, OP. I've read that article on the evening it was published and I'm still haunted by the details. Did set up a mumsnet account just to publish the link, but couldn't find words to do it.

This report https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/12/22/world/europe/beeri-massacre.html?searchResultPosition=2 is also harrowing.

It's beyond me why most media kept silent about it, even though the scale of atrocities was known pretty much from day one. Even the bloody UN took all the time it could!
I find it sickening that degenerate criminals who in any civilised society would rot behind bars are glorified by some as 'freedom fighters'. Sinwar seems to love mentioning martyrdom -- the real martyrs were those women, not lowlifes who robbed them of life and dignity.

My heart goes to the families of the victims, and to ZAKA members and first responders at the scene. Words fail me here.

The Day Hamas Came

No Israeli town suffered more bloodshed than Be’eri in the Hamas attacks on Oct. 7.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/12/22/world/europe/beeri-massacre.html?searchResultPosition=2

backtowinter · 30/12/2023 14:00

Birthdaygal · 30/12/2023 13:12

Bizarre thread. This should be about the horrors these girls and women suffered and the disgusting hamas men who committed them.

Instead it’s about goading those who oppose Palestine being blown up. You goaded them when they didn’t post, and then you goad them when they do.

Disgraceful behaviour.

What do you mean?

Are you saying those discussing acts of terrorism, brutal, deliberate, up close and personal acts of terrorism are to blame for the derailers and whatabouters?

Surely I've misunderstood

Cats987 · 30/12/2023 13:40

I have no energy or words but have read the thread. My heart goes out to the Israelis who were abused. I can’t imagine the level of torture and the for the world to tune out to their ordeal.

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:35

Sorry for posting this directly but the derailing has got me wanting to be more direct in the approach to this thread

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:32

noblegiraffe · 30/12/2023 13:30

I think I was in the opposite of an echo chamber.

Possibly

Just trying to get a rise out of you for old time sake

bythebanksof · 30/12/2023 13:32

@Solaris89 I work in the legal area, for the last 15 years mostly sexual assault cases. Several people in these forums know me and my work in RL. You say ... "All things considered, this is the worst thing I’ve ever read (and I’ve studied a lot of history)" ... you really really need to read more about women and war.

Start with these
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Our-Bodies-Their-Battlefield-Womans/dp/0008300003
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rape-Nanking-Forgotten-Holocaust-World/dp/0465068367

These events are shocking, and deliberate, and meant to be so. It gives insight to the true nature of Hamas.

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:30

Yet people deny and minimise

Note where female IDF were shot. That is not war or conflict. That is something else.

noblegiraffe · 30/12/2023 13:30

I think I was in the opposite of an echo chamber.

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:23

noblegiraffe · 30/12/2023 13:19

I was surprised that the poster who made the monumentally stupid post now deleted appears to be a regular genuine MNetter.

My basic assumption was that it was a goady troll. Finding out that was probably a genuinely held opinion is quite mind-boggling.

Some people must live in extreme echo chambers.

What like the exsteme echo chamber you lived in about when schools should have gone back you mean 😁

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:22

Tap to see whole image, it has done that thing of not showing it all again

I have no idea how to stop that or if I can

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:21

This

noblegiraffe · 30/12/2023 13:19

I was surprised that the poster who made the monumentally stupid post now deleted appears to be a regular genuine MNetter.

My basic assumption was that it was a goady troll. Finding out that was probably a genuinely held opinion is quite mind-boggling.

Some people must live in extreme echo chambers.

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:17

Name changes are a must to all the useful idiots it seems. Plus the use of different accounts so they are not caught out

The lengths some will go too. In the mean time the rest of us would like to talk about the topic of the thread at some point

Mushroomsouptonight · 30/12/2023 13:16

Mushroomsouptonight · 30/12/2023 13:09

I imagine any of the free Palestine have no idea of any of that and probably won't read it. Sadly the hate doesn't allow them to consider anything but the phrases picked up on X and Tic toc and Instagram that are thrown around like confetti.

Show quote history

I apologise, I got sidetrack by the derailers, whataboutery and rape deniers and answered their comments. I should just ignore them.

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:14

Birthdaygal · 30/12/2023 13:12

Bizarre thread. This should be about the horrors these girls and women suffered and the disgusting hamas men who committed them.

Instead it’s about goading those who oppose Palestine being blown up. You goaded them when they didn’t post, and then you goad them when they do.

Disgraceful behaviour.

Hokey Dokey

Mushroomsouptonight · 30/12/2023 13:13

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:01

Where the heck do you get your information from. You seriously think Israel isn't suffering from the near constant rockets fired at Israel since they started on 7th October. That was before Israel fired a single thing at Gaza. Hamas broke the ceasefire that had been happening there first during their pogrom. Israelis are still hostages in Gaza, more than 100 men, women and children. Israelis around 250k in the north alone have had to leave there homes for safety. Families have 18/19 year old children that are expected to serve in the IDF as compulsory service unless Arab. These child are in danger and many have died.
Not to mention that Israelis are still in trauma from the pogrom and the world reaction to all this. Everyone is suffering but you feel that because the deaths are not equal Gazens can only be spoken about.

If we expand away from this current conflict the evidence of Arab violence and hate towards the Jewish people on the land both before and after 1948 is quite something. Basically if you don't know and understand the history of the land pre 1948 including the regular riots and massacres of Jews then you really should not speak to me about what I can comprehend or compare the pogrom too. The 7th October was not the only pogrom of Jews to have happened on the land. There is evidence and photos of Arabs doing very similar torture, rape and murder of Jewish people on the land pre 1948. So sod right off with what you think is going on in the middle east at the moment. The pogrom literally proves that Israel was right to declare itself a state and that it has been trying to keep Jewish people safe for years. I don't think anyone will deny its methods are often questionable or not right. However people like yourself prefer dead good Jews to those that prefer to stay alive. Lets be honest that is why you probably still do the holocaust remembrance day. It is all beyond hypocritical!

Show quote history

This is the problem when people get their information from X, Tic toc and Instagram. Repeat key words, ignore all the history apart from one piece and repeat over and over again.

Birthdaygal · 30/12/2023 13:12

Bizarre thread. This should be about the horrors these girls and women suffered and the disgusting hamas men who committed them.

Instead it’s about goading those who oppose Palestine being blown up. You goaded them when they didn’t post, and then you goad them when they do.

Disgraceful behaviour.

Mushroomsouptonight · 30/12/2023 13:09

stomachameleon · 30/12/2023 12:37

www.heyalma.com/israel-guide/history-of-israel-palestine-before-1948/

Just in case anyone is interested....

I imagine any of the free Palestine have no idea of any of that and probably won't read it. Sadly the hate doesn't allow them to consider anything but the phrases picked up on X and Tic toc and Instagram that are thrown around like confetti.

BigFrau · 30/12/2023 13:08

No, they don't know or understand history at all, or the implications and effects of historical events.
They expect to come onto threads, any threads, and just yell their opinions.
To do that on a thread like this one in particular is beyond disgusting.
But it tells us something about them.

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:06

OK so I think we have all established some posters are ignorant of historical facts, some posters think two wrongs make a right and some just like saying the word genocide to derail a thread

It was a long morning wasn't it