WHY!!!

Given that Israel has conscription, that's a large number of Israelis you're wishing extreme ill on. Arabs are excempt though so it's mostly the Jewish ones you want to suffer for the rest of their lives.

Coming back to the original question of why war happens, and why people don't just reject it: OP, have you come across the prisoner's dilemma? It shows a particular type of situation where the incentive for the individual leads to action which is worse for the group as a whole.

The example is where 2 members of a criminal gang are arrested. The police don't have enough evidence to convict the pair on the principal charge, but can sentence both on a lesser charge which means both prisoners get a year in jail.

The police offer each prisoner a bargain:

• If one prisoner testifies against his partner, he will go free while the partner will get three years in jail on the main charge.

You can see that the best situation all round is for both to stay silent, and get a year each. But if a prisoner only cares about their own self interest, they are always better off testifying: if the other prisoner also testifies against them, they get 2 years in prison instead of 3,; if the other prisoner stays silent, then they get let off completely instead of serving 1 year.

But that same reasoning holds for both of them, so the consequence is that both prisoners will testify against each other - and so each will serve 2 years even though they could have both served only 1 year if both had stayed silent.

Armed conflict is the same type of problem as the prisoner's dilemma. Peace is much better for everyone. But if you can't trust the other side not to use weapons, then you're always better off using force yourself. If they weren't going to use force, then you gain an advantage. And if they were going to use force, then you are able to defend yourself instead of being slaughtered. So both sides fight, and both sides are worse off than if neither had done.

Breaking that conflict of interest was the driver behind the EEC after WW2, which eventually became the EU. By building trade links, each country's self-interest became more aligned with the whole group continuing to function. So instead of choosing the best thing for ourselves with no care for the other countries, we had an incentive to take a risk and hold on, gradually building up trust with each other that we'll all act in the interests of the whole group. Which - if everyone continues to act in good faith - ends up benefiting us all individually. And in Europe that worked.

There are other complicating factors in Israel/Gaza.

But hopefully this is a useful perspective into 'why'

I don't know why it matters either but it seems to. Many posters here including some posters that are posting on this thread have stated that what Hamas did was the worst thing imaginable. They've posted about the methods hamas used to kill people repeatedly and in great detail. Yet it's different apparently when Israel kill 1 out of every 105 people that live in Gaza. That isn't slaughter, that isn't barbaric, that isn't despicable. Apparently bombing people to death or executing people or starving them to death is entirely different to what Hamas did. They are all dead at the end of the day as you say, it makes no difference how they were killed Hamas killed 1139 people on 7/10 and Israel have killed over 20500 people. They both have blood on their hands and I hope no member of Hamas or no member of the IDF and Israeli government ever have a peaceful nights sleep again. May the faces of those they have slaughtered haunt them forever.

@Girahim exactly.

They have ethnically cleansed the area of Christian's. As Hamas will of any area that it is allowed to govern. As it would in other countries if this was allowed to continue. Luckily Israel allows them to be there and none of your repeat posts will convince me otherwise.

You feel comfortable attacking Israel. Undermining who did and didn't die as If it's a game. I wonder why beheading Thai nationals is a war against Israel? Why attacking people of all nationalities and religions is a war against Israel? Raping women? Interesting argument.

Jesus Christ you're tenacious. I just wondered why it was so important o you that people get the precise manner in which children were murdered correct, that's all. Calm the fuck down.

I was talking about Gaza too. IDF have killed many more Christians in the past weeks in Gaza than Hamas has over the past 17 years, including on 7/10.

And you’ve used all but one of those posts to question why I’d post a report from the Times of Israel. Is there something bad or wrong about the Times of Israel? Something you don’t like?

@Hellenika in Gaza it has and that's what I was talking about.

Because it has been going on for such a long time. Because it needs a proper solution. Because Palestinians cannot possibly just accept the shitty hand they have been dealt and even if it were not Hamas, another group will step into the same shoes.

Because Israel is built on fear. Israel want the permanent obliteration of Palestine, but still will not feel secure.

There needs to be a proper, negotiated 2/3 state solution that gives everyone enough to feel secure.

This flurry may end with hostage exchange, or it may not. But things will continuously happen until a real peace deal happens.

Many? I've posted five times in this thread, including this one. Much less than you.

This isn’t a war based on religion as the post I replied to said Hamas had been doing “ethnic cleansing of Christians”

Hamas killed indiscriminately, people of all faiths including Jewish, Christian, Muslim, and others.

Their war is against Israel who they refer to as “the occupation.”

@Snugglemonkey how do you know that?

@Hellenika

Hamas hasn’t started a war against Christians!

Sorry I thought it was known that some of the people killed on 7/10 were of other faiths?

No, it would not. That would not last. There is a shocking a count of naivity on this thread.

People have been questioning since there have been conflicts. It does not stop because of vested interests, because there are really no actual solutions, because sometimes there is not the political will. Because of varied and complex reasons.

It is absolutely not due to people not questioning. Most people question if conflict is necessary, but necessary means different things to different people.

I started being an active pacifist at 7. Still going. Still campaigning 36 years later. Spent my whole life pushing against violence. Of course people question!!!

It is really the Israeli government and IDF’s flagrant violations of the Geneva convention that we need to worry more about now when it comes to genocide unfolding. You not only need intent, you need the means. Hamas falls far short of having the means.

The identification of bodies process is almost complete. As of December 4th, there was only one body of an infant under age 1 (infants are babies) who was shot while in her mother’s arms. The article also implies only 8 of the bodies not examined and identified are civilians. This means it is increasingly unlikely that this social media allegation is true as 99% [756 of 764 civilian bodies] have been examined and identified.

So my post stating that so far, there is no evidence that Hamas “slit the throats of babies” is correct per the Israeli forensic experts examining the bodies at the Shura Pathological Center, near Tel Aviv in Israel.

A process that Hamas intend to repeat again, again, again. They don't make any secret of this.

Identification of the bodies is an ongoing process, as indicated in the headline of the article you shared.

Yes but you could do the same about Isrsel. 1200 died out of a population of 9 or 10 million.

Are you saying the Times of Israel, published in Israel by Israelis is in denial? All I am doing is reporting their article, and accurately, unlike you. It is incorrect to say they have only accounted for 10% of the bodies. In your haste you have taken an early sentence from the start of the article that focussed on children and the elderly and presumed it represented all the bodies- both combatants and civilian. Read on.

More from the article:

“An unknown number of bodies — in mid-November the number was around 100 — are still awaiting identification at the Shura pathological center near Tel Aviv, with difficulties in the process arising because of the state of the remains. Some of the remains are believed to belong to Hamas terrorists.“

later on the article implies only 8 of unidentified bodies are civilians as 764 have been identified as civilians, of which 756 have been identified as to who they are, age, sex and manner of death:

”Authorities have identified a total of 274 soldiers and 859 non-soldiers killed during the brutal assault. The latter figure includes 57 Israel Police officers and 38 local security officers. It is unclear which of these individuals were on duty when killed. Removing those victims leaves a figure of 764 civilians.”

”But the Walla news site has published data by age and gender for 756 of the murdered civilians for which information is available.
One of them was a baby under the age of one year — 10-month-old Mila Cohen, killed with her father and grandmother.
According to data by Haaretz, a Bedouin woman at the tail end of her pregnancy was shot in the abdomen while heading to the hospital to give birth, where doctors delivered the baby, but failed to save it.
Additionally, 12 children aged 1 to 9 — 10 boys and two girls — were murdered in the Hamas massacres, according to Walla.
Between the ages of 10 and 19, 36 civilians were murdered, 25 of them male and 11 female.
The largest number of confirmed civilian victims, 421, were in the age group of 20-40. Among them were 259 men and 162 women.
There were 161 victims between the ages of 41 and 64 — 102 men and 59 women.
Walla reported that 100 victims were aged 65-80, including 69 women and 31 men.
And 25 victims were over the age of 80 — 18 men and seven women.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/14-kids-under-10-25-people-over-80-up-to-date-breakdown-of-oct-7-victims-we-know-about/

I missed your post and deletion. Thank you for also agreeing that facts matter. It is one thing to repeat rumour or allegations until the appropriate investigative authorities have reported on the facts, but quite another to continue repeating allegations long after they have been proven to not be true.

I like to post the facts and give posters a chance to update their working knowledge of the Israeli-Gaza conflict. Many posters have done the same for me as new information comes out daily.

From the article you quote:
Partial data by Hebrew media covering the civilians — killed by thousands of invading terrorists and by some of the thousands of rockets fired that day at Israeli cities — reveals that they include two infants, 12 other children under the age of 10, 36 civilians aged 10-19, and 25 elderly people over the age of 80, accounting for 75 of the 764 civilians.

So, so far they have accounted for about 10% of the bodies found.

Why are you in such denial about what happened on 7 October?

@HellishNika
Your video is as of 17th of October, so is preliminary information that has since been revised by the Times of Israel report I linked dated the 4th of December which is the most current that I could find. I am happy to look at anything you find that is newer.