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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Genuine question - why does the USA support Israel so strongly?

196 replies

Bathsheba1789 · 21/12/2023 22:19

Genuine question. I just don’t understand it. I do know some of the history, and the feelings about the need to create a Jewish homeland post WW2. However currently - Netanyahu and Biden don’t get on, Obama had a very frosty relationship with Netanyahu. The current Israeli coalition government contains some openly extremist politicians who have used racist rhetoric against the Palestinians in the past.
The IDF are clearly committing war crimes and the international pressure for a ceasefire is mounting.
So why is the US so pro Israel? The current debate about the UN resolution - why is the US demanding the language be watered down to keep Netanyahu happy - for goodness sake the USA is the most powerful country in the world.
genuinely don’t get it. This isn’t a goading question I just scratch my head at the whole thing (when not feeling utter despair at the terrible suffering in the world).

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Original poster
Bathsheba1789 · 22/12/2023 07:53

@ayegazumba I think what I was getting at by ‘so strongly’ is that the USA doesn’t criticise Israel when it would other countries. I wasn’t questioning it’s right to exist.

For example, I support Russia’s right to exist. But I criticise the current invasion of Ukraine. Just criticising a country’s actions (like the bombardment of Gaza that isn’t actually working and just causing huge suffering) doesn’t mean you don’t think it should exist.

OP posts:
ayegazumba · 22/12/2023 07:42

@mollyfolk that's exactly the question. Israel is constantly fighting for its existence, supporting israel 'so strongly' is supporting its right to exist.

Livinginanotherworld · 22/12/2023 02:01

It’s America’s strategic ally in the Middle East. They are not going to let go of that, it’s like having a big US base right in the middle of everything. Also Mossad has free rein in the US and works closely with the CIA. It is an alliance that suits them both. It’s all about the oil, commercialism and business and a strategic place in the gulf. They bankroll the arms and the iron dome in return. Neither of them give a damn about anything else.

FOJN · 22/12/2023 01:41

ayegazumba · 21/12/2023 23:27

@FOJN of course Christian fundamentalism is a thing but to come on a post asking why America supports Israel and to give that at the answer is very telling. I'm not saying they don't exist and that they do t support Israel but to call that out as the reason is showcasing a wilfully biased perspective which actively ignores the actual reasons. Those being that America supports Israel's right to exists because the Jewish people have endured 1000s years of persecution, endless violence, oppression and murder. Israel is a place where Jews can flee persecution. By having Israel Jews from Ethiopia, North Africa, the Middle East and Europe have been able to escape genocide. That's why, but good to see the first thoughts people have are it's because Jews are powerful because the Christian fundamentalists support them, and they're powerful. These answers actually confirm the need for Israel to exist

You took issue with the word fundamentalist not the argument you have made here.

elliejjtiny · 22/12/2023 01:22

The Jews and the Christians will mostly be on the side of Israel I would imagine. And there are a lot of Jews and Christians in the USA

flowerchild2000 · 22/12/2023 00:14

There's no guilt, no idea why anyone would say that. American Christianity is tied to Israel and that's foundational to our politics.

Malificent1 · 22/12/2023 00:03

A2304 · 21/12/2023 22:44

America want a foot in the Middle East

This.

Neverpostagain · 22/12/2023 00:00

ayegazumba · 21/12/2023 23:27

@FOJN of course Christian fundamentalism is a thing but to come on a post asking why America supports Israel and to give that at the answer is very telling. I'm not saying they don't exist and that they do t support Israel but to call that out as the reason is showcasing a wilfully biased perspective which actively ignores the actual reasons. Those being that America supports Israel's right to exists because the Jewish people have endured 1000s years of persecution, endless violence, oppression and murder. Israel is a place where Jews can flee persecution. By having Israel Jews from Ethiopia, North Africa, the Middle East and Europe have been able to escape genocide. That's why, but good to see the first thoughts people have are it's because Jews are powerful because the Christian fundamentalists support them, and they're powerful. These answers actually confirm the need for Israel to exist

You seriously don't believe the US supports Israel for anything other than strategic reasons do you? MAGA. America first.

webbydeb · 21/12/2023 23:53

Both countries need each other and the US to remain as a superpower. One example but not a major reason but for instance, American politicians need the lobbying to fund their campaigns, huge arm trades deal, they need them for spyware. It's a relationship with mutual interests. Both countries have their hands in each other's pockets (economy) and politics but I would say Israel has their hands more in the US politics than the other way around. I don't believe this has to do with religion whatsoever, it's just political motivation. Some relationships break but I would never see these two countries at each other's throats unless the whole US political system changes but that will never ever happen because those that try will get cancelled :)

mollyfolk · 21/12/2023 23:40

ayegazumba · 21/12/2023 23:02

Ok and how is that relevant to why America supports Israel's right to exist?

That’s not the question. I support Israel’s right to exist. It does exist - most Israelis were born in Israel, they have as much right as anyone to be there. The question is why does the US support Israel so much? Especially as their are clearly frosty relations with the current government.

ayegazumba · 21/12/2023 23:31

@chickadeeky the fact that you thought there was a big Jewish population says it all, it's your perspective on Jews. The fact that they're a very small percentage of a population yet you believe they're bigger than they are and 'significant' is very telling. If you actually care about having an unconscious bias towards Jews and want to change that then you should read 'Jews don't count' by David baddiel.

ayegazumba · 21/12/2023 23:27

@FOJN of course Christian fundamentalism is a thing but to come on a post asking why America supports Israel and to give that at the answer is very telling. I'm not saying they don't exist and that they do t support Israel but to call that out as the reason is showcasing a wilfully biased perspective which actively ignores the actual reasons. Those being that America supports Israel's right to exists because the Jewish people have endured 1000s years of persecution, endless violence, oppression and murder. Israel is a place where Jews can flee persecution. By having Israel Jews from Ethiopia, North Africa, the Middle East and Europe have been able to escape genocide. That's why, but good to see the first thoughts people have are it's because Jews are powerful because the Christian fundamentalists support them, and they're powerful. These answers actually confirm the need for Israel to exist

chickadeeky · 21/12/2023 23:17

ayegazumba · 21/12/2023 23:12

@chickadeeky yes I have picked up on certain words you were using and things you were saying as they reeked of old anti-Semitic tropes about Jews being powerful, influential and 'significant'. Maybe you don't realise what you're saying and if that's the case then there's a lot of unconscious anti-semitism in your thought process that you should maybe take a look at.

I didn't say anything about power or influence so maybe you have me mixed up with someone else.

plusjamais · 21/12/2023 23:13

So "genuine question" is the new "please excuse my ignorance", and as if by magic we're straight into conspiracy territory of controlling Jews.

ayegazumba · 21/12/2023 23:12

@chickadeeky yes I have picked up on certain words you were using and things you were saying as they reeked of old anti-Semitic tropes about Jews being powerful, influential and 'significant'. Maybe you don't realise what you're saying and if that's the case then there's a lot of unconscious anti-semitism in your thought process that you should maybe take a look at.

FOJN · 21/12/2023 23:10

ayegazumba · 21/12/2023 23:06

@Pitpatwaddlepat so supporting Israel's right to exist is a fundamentalist belief now? Some of these comments

Good grief, talk about looking for offense. Christian fundamentalism is a thing. Perhaps read the post again.

www.britannica.com/summary/Christian-fundamentalism#:~:text=Christian%20fundamentalism%2C%20Conservative%20Protestant%20movement,Birth%2C%20resurrection%2C%20and%20atonement.

chickadeeky · 21/12/2023 23:09

ayegazumba · 21/12/2023 23:02

Ok and how is that relevant to why America supports Israel's right to exist?

You've really honed in on that part of my post haven't you, despite the my main opinion being that "anything but Islam" was the main motivation for America's support.

Pitpatwaddlepat · 21/12/2023 23:09

I don't think I said that supporting Israel's right to exist was a fundamentalist belief... I said that the US basing their foreign policy on the rapture might be considered a fringe belief... Since this is a UK forum and the UK is secular.

DaddaGreen · 21/12/2023 23:07

Mine should say culturally significant not culturally ignorant! Darn autocorrect

ayegazumba · 21/12/2023 23:06

@Pitpatwaddlepat so supporting Israel's right to exist is a fundamentalist belief now? Some of these comments

ayegazumba · 21/12/2023 23:02

Ok and how is that relevant to why America supports Israel's right to exist?

Pitpatwaddlepat · 21/12/2023 23:00

I'm surprised no one is mentioning the influence of Christian fundamentalists in American politics. Israel is very important for them and some of their support is related to fundamentalist Christian beliefs about e.g. the circumstances needed in the world for the rapture to come about.
This sounds like it would be the concerns of a fringe group but it's actually a very powerful influence on the US senate- they are the same people who got Roe V Wade overturned after all.

DaddaGreen · 21/12/2023 22:58

I think there’s a lot of things at play. Some I think comes from anti Muslim sentiments and it’s fair to say Isreal is an important ally to them and the UAE in the Middle East. Americas Muslim population is much smaller than here and possibly less culturally ignorant. On the other hand I think some of the support also comes from American cultural connections with Israeli jews. I met several American Jews travelling in Europe for whom the tour of European concentration camps and then Jerusalem was clearly a huge life event. I suspect Isreal and Zionism are big influences even though they never plan to move there. There’s also a surprising number of American Christian zionists. For some they believe conflict in Jerusalem is an inevitable precursor to the second coming. There’s a few who believe this who are influenceable Republicans. As are arms manufacturers.

chickadeeky · 21/12/2023 22:56

ayegazumba · 21/12/2023 22:54

@chickadeeky what does 'significant' mean? Please explain

Significantly more than most other countries that aren't Israel?