Murdered vs died.

I'm no fan of the BBC and havent been since Covid. I was labelled a conspiracy theorist' and all sorts for that at the time. I find it fascinating how this war has made it socially acceptable to call out and question 'mainstream media'. Literally weeks before 10/7, Russell Brand was ridiculed for doing so.

@auberginefortea ah thanks for confirming.

That said the report is by Relief Web and contains important info. Relief Web is an official organisation. I don't think you could argue they are not trustworthy.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/un-human-rights-office-opt-unlawful-killings-gaza-city

OHCHR OPT has received disturbing information alleging that Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) summarily killed at least 11 unarmed Palestinian men in front of their family members in Al Remal neighbourhood, Gaza City, which raises alarm about the possible commission of a war crime. This comes in the wake of earlier allegations concerning the deliberate targeting and killing of civilians at the hands of Israeli forces.

The Israeli authorities must immediately institute an independent, thorough and effective investigation into these allegations, and if found to be substantiated, those responsible must be brought to justice and measures implemented to prevent any such serious violations from recurring.

On 19 December 2023, between 2000 and 2300 hours, IDF reportedly surrounded and raided Al Awda building, also known as the “Annan building”, in Al Remal neighborhood, Gaza City, where three related families were sheltering in addition to Annan family. According to witness accounts circulated by media sources and Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor, while in control of the building and the civilians sheltering there, the IDF allegedly separated the men from the women and children, and then shot and killed at least 11 of the men, mostly aged in their late 20’s and early 30’s, in front of their family members. The IDF then allegedly ordered the women and children into a room, and either shot at them or threw a grenade into the room, reportedly seriously injuring some of them, including an infant and a child. OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awdabuilding, although the details and circumstances of the killings are still under verification. IDF has not released any information on the incident.

It's well known that the poster is spreading CCP propaganda. I happen to know him tangentially. He's a failed businessman who moved to China and is a regular feature on Chinese State Media posing an "independent" "entrepreneur".

Last year, when civilians were dying in Ukraine, he spent all his time defending Russia's actions. Since October he's been posting furiously about Israel-Gaza. The whole point is to spread anti-west propaganda, and as we see from its spread, it's working.

I can't see any link in that Tweet to the Chinese Communist Party?🤔And the man making it appears to be an entrepreneur and unrelated to the Chinese Communist Party.

The report the tweet refers to can be found here via the Relief Web (an official organisation) website and appears to be genuine

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/un-human-rights-office-opt-unlawful-killings-gaza-city

about relief web

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReliefWeb

Agree @LenaLamont.

Using another word such as killed has the same impact imo. Using the word murdered doesn't quite fit. And what others have said.

Whether or not any of us feel it was murder is irrelevant, the BBC aren't going to use it in this context.

In my view killing unarmed civilians that are not a threat is murder

So the U.K. committed mass murders in all the cities it bombed in WW2, like the fire bombing of Dresden?

In wars, innocent people are killed, often in unimaginably large numbers. It awful. It’s often indefensible.

Framing those deaths as murders rather than killings doesn’t make them
any more or less dead, or the circumstances of their death any more or less tragic.

The CPS says:

the crime of murder is committed, where a person:

• of sound mind and discretion (sane)
• unlawfully kills (not self-defence or other justified killing)
• any reasonable creature (a human being)
• in being (born alive and breathing through its own lungs)
• under the King's Peace (not in wartime)
• with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (in contrast to the offence of attempted murder, where only intent to kill will suffice)

(bold type my own)

Murder isn’t the right term for an army killing people. That’s what war means.

I find it very unsettling to see the Chinese Communist Party information being shared like this.

I agree OP, the language standards are completely different and I think it is obvious.

Here is an interesting related article about it:

https://www.declassifieduk.org/analysis-how-the-uk-and-us-media-dehumanise-palestinians/

With some examples copied from the article below:

Gazans aren’t killed by Israeli forces or Israeli government policies. They “dehydrate to death as clean water runs out” (Guardian, 18 October) while Israeli airstrikes “continue to pound the Palestinian territory”.

On 9 October, the BBC ran with “700 people have been killed on the Israeli side with more than 400 also dead in Gaza”, presumably succumbing to shock or an act of God.

On 8 November, the Times of London noted: “Israelis marked a month since Hamas killed 1,400 people and kidnapped 240, starting a war in which 10,300 Palestinians are said to have died”, which is of course qualified.

Palestinian deaths are natural, undifferentiated. This is only possible because the media treat Israel’s blockade of Gaza as wholly logical, proportionate and even restrained.

No. It’s a decision for all human beings to make, as all of us know we wouldn’t like ourselves or our children to be brutally murdered or maimed so we shouldn’t do it to others.

Agree.
I call what both Hamas did and Israel is doing “murder”.
The deliberate killing of innocent people for your own gain.

In my view killing unarmed civilians that are not a threat is murder and often soldiers are tried for murder long after conflicts, once events and evidence is collated but it is very difficult.

As someone pointed out already a British soldier was charged with murder for bloody Sunday but it was a very contentious emotive trial, with dailymail in particular and their readers, being incensed about it.

In the case of Northern Ireland it is still an issue and shows how people matter, who is in charge matters. For instance in the news today is the The Northern Ireland Troubles legacy bill which was introduced by the Tory government in September: The act became UK law in September 2023. It looks to end legal proceedings relating to the Troubles by granting immunity to people who cooperate with the new Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery (ICRIR).
The Irish government have launched a legal challenge against it. Justice from conflicts is extremely difficult

https://news.sky.com/story/irish-government-launches-legal-challenge-against-uks-controversial-northern-ireland-legacy-bill-13034806

x.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1737619949101989906?s=46

"According to the UN Human Rights Office (OHCHR), 11 men were shot in front of their family members on Tuesday and "the IDF then allegedly ordered the women and children into a room, and either shot at them or threw a grenade into the room""

Were these people killed or murdered?

But that's a decision for an international court, following a rigorous trial.

So when an IDF sniper shoots two women inside church grounds for going to the toilet, were they killed or murdered?

Or maybe I should rephrase that to say that it would never be acceptable for civilians to do to eachother in day to day life.

I don’t understand why war is an excuse to do things to a civilian population that would never be acceptable in day to day life.

Hamas murdered people in a terrorist attack.
IDF killed (many more) people in a war.

We use different language to describe different circumstances and always have.

Thanks for explanation 👍

She's absolutely right though The words have different meanings related to intent

Has anyone actually checked the BBC on this?

From this link, the BBC talks quite clearly about Palestinians killed.

I posted this in the journalists in Gaza thread but it’s more relevant here. Talks about exactly what you’ve highlighted OP re the use of the “passive voice” when it comes to describing what’s happening to Palestinians. Worth a quick watch.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1AIaslOG1r/?igsh=ZDE1MWVjZGVmZQ==

One of the soldiers who murdered civilians on Bloody Sunday is finally going on trial so maybe they will finally be referred to as murders if he's convicted.

To use the word "murdered" would be to accuse Israel of war crimes. It's not up to the BBC to make that call, or at least, not at this point.

Absolutely not unique to this conflict. Language is so important and the media know exactly what they are doing with the different language they use.

I did see on the BBC news at 10 last extremely distressing footage from Gaza so I do think their reporting has been very good with good information.

I've noticed also now that the BBC call Derry Londonderry now. Like they used to in The Troubles. Is that because both are allowed and British government use Londonderry, Irish government use Derry so always Derry on Irish news

but the nature of airstrikes is that individual civilians are not being directly targeted. There is a military objective at play.

You can't be serious