Layla Moran's family trapped in Catholic church and under attack from IDF

@Silence1 agreed
And I can't believe there are people still trying to justify the absolute horrors that we are seeing every day. I really can't.

But doesn't look like in this instance the Pope or other senior figures have taken Msrk Regev's word for it
With the amount of indiscriminate killing that has been reported, I would agree.
I posted on another thread about what i read from sky's military analysts that with so many inexperienced soldiers on the ground, it seems that there is alot of shoot first and ask questions later which what I think is likely to have happened here

@FOJN this is what Mark Regev said

He said he did not know whether the IDF killed the women, and said an investigation was under way.
"Could they have been killed [in the crossfire] by Palestinian terrorists who were shooting at our people indiscriminately? I don't know."

Have the IDF offered any explanation for why they are targeting a church in the first place?

It would be counterproductive to notify the occupants of the church that there would be a two hour break from sniper fire if you thought Hamas were hiding there.

Can anyone make this make sense?

The archbishop of westminister has spoken to sky news today
It's approximately a 10 minute interview and makes a very sad watch. He looks utterly broken when talking about the situation. He was asked if he believed that IDF did not mean to kill the two ladies at the church and he said he did not

It's certainly a cold-blooded killing," Cardinal Nichols said.
"What absolutely puzzles me is, this does nothing to further Israel's right to defend itself," he added.
He said it appeared to be a "random shooting" and called for accountability.
When asked whether he believed the IDF claims that there were rocket launchers and Hamas fighters inside, the cardinal said: "No, I don't."

.

@floodlightonwhatisright no she isn't there but she has family there.
I did say that this was her update and I wasn't misleading in making it seem like it was from MSM for example.

People who know her can decide if they think she is saying the truth or lying as with the absence of independant journalists in Gaza it normally takes awhile before these updates are reported on MSM
She is doing whatever she can to raise awareness of the situation in the hopes there will be a intervention. As by the time official statements come out it could be too late for others who are in danger at the church right now which includes her family.

Can you not see how desperate it is to be here and have your loved ones there and there is nothing you can do? Atleast she is doing what she can

Is it your assumption that her family are telling her lies about their situation?

Where is the evidence from her "update" on Twitter? She isn't there is she?

@MissyB1 Yes, I've seen some documentaries about that issue.

Yes I agree, I was just trying to make the broader point that Christians are also often discriminated against in Israel.

But I still want to hear the IDF explanation for an action which is deeply distressing to Christians around the world. But then again, so much killing has happened with no explanation, so I don't hold out much hope.

@MissyB1 I shouldn't think any Palestinian is treated differently, even if they are atheists!

Because I think they have a problem with Christian’s as well as Muslims.

I don't know
There are no safe places in Gaza. The Israeli spokesperson hasn't said yet but I think after Pope Francis has weighed in too, that we may hear soon enough

Indeed the prevention of toilet access is distressing, particularly for disabled people too.

@Parkingt111 Many thanks. I'm not on twitter. It sounds horrendous for the people there, Why are they firing on them, I wonder?

I know that naturally most people find it upsetting to read that people are trapped without food and water. But one thing that's not really focused on is lack of toilets or access to it.
I find reading that really upsetting as it add an extra layer of humiliation
Especially for women who are menstruating

I saw this update on Layla Moran's twitter

Update: a tank has taken position outside the church and the building opposite has been taken. The people inside have died. There are snipers at every window pointing into the church. Still shooting anyone emerging from buildings to use eg toilets. Still no food or water.

I don’t automatically believe people including the BBC but I think Layla Moran has quite a lot of credibility.

Pope Francis condemns Israeli killings of civilians at Gaza church

Pope Francis has condemned the Israeli killings of two Christian women who were sheltering at a Gaza church, suggesting Israel was using “terrorism” tactics across the strip.

Reuters reports:

At his weekly blessing, Francis referred to a statement about an incident on Saturday by the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, the Catholic authority in the Holy Land.

The Patriarchate said an Israel Defense Forces (IDF) “sniper” killed the two women, whom the pope named as Nahida Khalil Anton and her daughter Samar, as they walked to a convent of nuns in the compound of the Holy Family Parish.

The Patriarchate statement said seven other people were shot and wounded as they tried to protect others.

“I continue to receive very grave and painful news from Gaza,” Francis said. “Unarmed civilians are the objects of bombings and shootings. And this happened even inside the Holy Family parish complex, where there are no terrorists, but families, children, people who are sick or disabled, nuns.”

Francis said they were killed by “snipers” and also referred to the Patriarchate’s statement that a convent of nuns of the order founded by Mother Teresa was damaged by Israeli tank fire.

“Some would say ‘It is war. It is terrorism.’ Yes, it is war. It is terrorism,” he said. An Israeli foreign ministry spokesperson said the incident was still under review and had no immediate comment on the pope’s words.

It was the second time in less than a month that the pope used the word “terrorism” while speaking of events in Gaza.

On Nov. 22, after meeting separately with Israeli relatives of hostages held by Hamas and Palestinians with family in Gaza, he said: “This is what wars do. But here we have gone beyond wars. This is not war. This is terrorism.”

From the Guardian:

The IDF has been asked to comment by CNN and other news agencies. I think once they explain what's going on at the church it will be clearer. Of course, if they don't explain themselves we can only go with the information currently available.

Cameron's article states that 'too many civilians have been killed', and that this conflict can not drag on and on.' He might not be stating ceasefire now, but it is a definite shift from full throated support for continuing violence.