Has anyone changed their mind from what they have read on here?

Excuse me, but why would Israeli military action make radical antisemites want to harm Jewish people???

In what way would they do that?

Of course there was a better way, imagine if Israel had behaved better towards the civilian population of Gaza, they would be in a much better situation now with the sympathy of every country and every Arab country as well. It simply is not morally right to kill and starve so many civilians in order to feel safer. The IDF have taken everything from the civilian population including their children. It is the cruellest thing to watch.

@Desertrose2023 so no ideas then?
The US are saying that after their own successes/ failures and the pressure they are under to say something. I don't believe their stance has changed at all though.

It's easy to say where Israel is going wrong but difficult to say what they should have done and let's face it they had to do something in light of what had happened and the threats to do it again.

What happens if there is a ceasefire and it happens again? It is a concern for Israelis and that has to be considered. There is always little on here about the continued rockets etc into Israel.

Excuse me, but why would Israeli military action make radical antisemites want to harm Jewish people???

I’m not a military strategist but I really don’t believe this was the only way. The fact that the US have publicly come out and said they are pushing for a more “surgical” campaign means it’s possible militarily. This is one of the best funded armies in the world and is backed up by a superpower.
I also think the restrictions placed on food, water, medicine etc. was unconscionable in all circumstances but especially if the objective was truly to degrade Hamas’s ability to launch further attacks rather than punish the entire population.

@stomachameleon I should hope so. Hamas did say awhile ago that they will release all hostages if there is a full ceasefire. We were discussing on the other group how the US is objecting to the wording so depending on that I'm not sure.
However If a full ceasefire resolution passes then i can't see why they wouldn't and if they still didn't then i would think that other countries like Qatar, Jordan, Egypt, Russia etc would put pressure on them to do so

I haven't changed my mind. We need the current Israeli government gone along with Hamas and every western leader who has refused to condemn the bombing of innocent people in Gaza.

Can I add to that who has minimised, denied and excused the actions of Hamas on October 7 and who has refused to condemn Hamas?

@25milesfromhome thank you for your reply. I fell asleep and it got missed amongst the many messages after it.

This does not in any way diminish the magnitude of Palestinian suffering and the trauma inflicted upon them, I can find space in my heart and and my conscience for both.

I love this that you said and I think we definitely need more people who can empathise with all those suffering. I understand not wanting to share concerns on a public forum, I am similar to you in that aspect that I generally prefer to discuss with people in real life who are experiencing similar but it's still such a shame for what you are going through right now and I do pray things get better.

@Parkingt111 do you think if that resolution passes then Hamas will release all the hostages? As is in the resolution?

@whattheactualfrog but they do. Hamas has had many sanctions placed upon them and all the resolutions that the UN have been voting on include actions that Hamas must adhere to aswell not just Israel

@Desertrose2023 how should they have gone about it?

Yeah as I thought, amazing how nobody wants to make any demands of Hamas whatsoever

Ask Hamas when the lives of the people they were elected to govern will start to matter more to them than killing Jews
"But Hamas..." is not a way to avoid discussion about Israel's actions as a country and it is done endlessly on this board.

If the Israeli government want long term peace and safety for their citizens then flattening Gaza, displacing huge numbers of civilians whilst their supporters say 'but it's actually Hamas' fault ask them' isn't going to get lasting peace and it certainly isn't going to stop groups of radical antisemites wanting to harm Jewish people.

That’s not a response to the question. Israel is a country with its own agency and should take accountability for its own decisions in terms of how it has responded to Hamas’s attack. It could have gone about this in a different way but has chosen to achieve its objective in a way that is causing unprecedented levels of humanitarian suffering. That is on the Israeli government.

Yup. Like Yair Netanyahu. No fear of him joining the army.

Ask Hamas when the lives of the people they were elected to govern will start to matter more to them than killing Jews

At what cost? The total decimation of the entire Gaza strip and the misery and starvation of millions? At what point does the value of these people’s lives start to matter.

Basically I've had enough of people being sent to war and innocent civilians dying when these powerful politicians sit in their comfortable houses making decisions that don't affect them directly and they are not prepared to put themselves on the front line
Agreed. That's how I feel about a lot of modern conflict decisions.

I haven't changed my mind. We need the current Israeli government gone along with Hamas and every western leader who has refused to condemn the bombing of innocent people in Gaza. I don't think any different about Jewish people because I don't blame them for one country's reckless government.

Basically I've had enough of people being sent to war and innocent civilians dying when these powerful politicians sit in their comfortable houses making decisions that don't affect them directly and they are not prepared to put themselves on the front line.

The objective isn’t to bomb an ideology out of existence, the ideologues are brainwashed beyond help, the objective is to degrade their ability to carry out further terrorist attacks.
The current terrorists and terrorist sympathisers are probably brainwashed beyond help, but the next generation aren't and don't have to be. When civilians are being killed on this sort of scale, it creates fertile ground for recruiters for the next generation.
The idea that if Gaza is flattened and civilians are displaced that this equals safety for everyone is naive. Let's look at the last few decades and see whether military solutions, blockades and occupations made for a safe environment for civilians on both sides...

Somewhere the adults need to get back in the room and focus on peace and ensuring the safety or civilians on both sides.

The objective isn’t to bomb an ideology out of existence, the ideologues are brainwashed beyond help, the objective is to degrade their ability to carry out further terrorist attacks.

I do think that in some way the many world leaders played a part in causing this divide by immediately picking a side straight away, which caused much resentment. But that's just my thoughts and I could be totally wrong.
Same here. I think a lot of this situation is caused by (mainly) men and their desire to have power, appear in power, have their ego massages, and have a name for themselves in history.

Another poster shared with me some information about the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, who I didn't know much about, which reinforced my view that there seems to be a pull back to conflict as soon as a peaceful solution becomes within touching distance.

Global leaders for decades have handled this situation in their own political and military interests with little consideration to the impact on civilians.

My deep concern is that you can't bomb a ideology out of existence so the current conflict is creating the next generation of people who are traumatised and easily radicalised.

Thank you @Parkingt111 ❤right back at you 🫂

Me too @Parkingt111 we haven’t always had the calmest of exchanges! But I think you’re proof that respectful discourse is possible and I appreciate being able to discuss something with you without the immediate response being “So you’re saying you support genocide, you have no humanity!” which is so often the default setting for some posters. There is a massive difference between having a genuine conversation with someone who cares and wants to share views, as opposed to someone who just wants to point score and is coming from a place of intolerance.

I also echo @plusjamais post (as well as her previous response to @mollyfolk about antisemitism) and similarly, I don’t discuss a lot of my views and feelings on here because it’s something I prefer to talk about in real life, not with people who choose to tokenise and bait Jews. inevitably and deliberately misconstruing something I’ve said. So I tend to stick to issues surrounding antisemitism now, where I’m happy to (unequivocally) let people know what a Jewish person thinks about it.

I also agree with @EllaDisenchanted that the impact of Oct 7th is being seriously underestimated, as well the continuing trauma. This does not in any way diminish the magnitude of Palestinian suffering and the trauma inflicted upon them, I can find space in my heart and and my conscience for both. I cannot recommend the erudite elicalebon enough for a valuable perspective on the I/P conflict, Iran and Middle Eastern issues. She spoke of ‘the knowledge that lives in your bones’ the other day and it really resonated with me.