Has anyone changed their mind from what they have read on here?

To answer the OP: I am.half Jewish and was not brought up to follow any religion. Prior to 7th Oct I was fairly ambivalent about Israel - I vaguely thought it was needed as a Jewish homeland but didn't give it much thought.

7th Oct and the subsequent reaction and antsemitism - much of which, i have to say, has been on MN - has changed everything for me. I would describe myself as a Zionist now. I think the need for a Jewish homeland that is able to defend itself is stronger than ever. I hate Netanyahu, I hate what is happening in Gaza but Israel must br allowed to defend itself.

As for the UK, well the scales have really fallen from my eyes. Scratch the surface and you find antisemitism lurking - it's been really quite frightening.

@upinaballoon it's interesting you mention Dresden. I was reading a article that I was able to for free on the financial Times that focused specifically on the bombs used in Gaza and the comparison with other places in terms of intensity.
One point mentioned was in history there has been some bombing campaigns that are simply remembered by the name of the place ie Dresden and that Gaza will probably be remembered like that too

There was a small population of Jews which lived peacefully in Palestine even before their mass immigration from Europe following the Holocaust. They co-existed in peace with their Christian and Muslim neighbours for centuries and were afforded many freedoms in the Ottoman Empire

This is demonstrably untrue.

I haven't changed my mind, but I probably qualify the situation more. I knew some of the history, a fair amount really, but I have learned more from these threads and from recommended links. I expected that the Israelis would react strongly. I was interested that Joe Biden made that warning right at the start about not reacting in rage. He didn't say it privately on a phone line. He said it in public where the whole world could hear.

It is impossible for me to go back to the UN map of about 1946/7 and make my own lines on it and then shake both lots up and say to them, "Now, even stevens and you damn well will live alongside one another peacefully."
I have lived through all of Israel's existence from 1948 and I feel that there were gentler administrations.

I have been saddened to realise how much anti-Semitism there is in the UK and the mainland of Europe, still? again?

I hold to what I said a long time ago, in a letter to a newspaper, about a different issue, all individuals are individuals and so not all Palestinians are supporters of Hamas and not all Israelis are pro Licud.

The whole thing since October has reminded me of other wars which I have seen on TV and heard about, including those men in the Balkans, behind bars and with their ribs countable because they didn't have enough to eat, boy soldiers in Africa trained to do unspeakable things to other human beings, and I have wondered how many children were wounded in Dresden and did not die quickly.

I feel this way too.

There was a small population of Jews which lived peacefully in Palestine even before their mass immigration from Europe following the Holocaust. They co-existed in peace with their Christian and Muslim neighbours for centuries and were afforded many freedoms in the Ottoman Empire, so I don’t think this argument is justified. Additionally, if you research the Balfour Declaration, then it was actually created in order to limit the immigration of Jewish people to Western Europe, so they were then welcomed in Palestine and took advantage of that to terrorise the Palestinians and British soldiers, and create Israel. Israel was actually founded on the murder and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and the terrorist Irgun and Haganah groups became part of the IDF.

I don’t know how anyone can justify creating another genocide due to suffering from genocide themselves. I think Zionists have lost any higher moral ground with this argument. The horrific images of men stripped to their underwear and being crammed into trucks elicits scenes from the Bosnian genocide and the Holocaust (which all British schoolchildren are taught about so that we do not allow this to happen again!) The wiping out of entire bloodlines in Gaza and indiscriminate murder of thousands of civilians, and trying to push them into Egypt is very reminiscent of what we were taught in History lessons as wrong!

So OP, Mumsnet hasn’t changed my mind-I’ve always been pro-Palestinian and have visited Gaza, Jerusalem and the West Bank a few times. I have seen the apartheid wall and the refugee camps from Bethlehem to Gaza. I have witnessed the Israeli police and soldiers violently arresting and beating Palestinian adults and children during their day to day lives-and this is as a tourist!

MN has opened my eyes to how staunchly pro-Zionist some people are, in that they will continue to support Israel’s massacre of Palestinian civilian men, women and children! And how they justify creating a Jewish homeland by persecuting and oppressing people from another part of the world, who did not play a part in the Holocaust. How they will ignore the previous 75 years of oppression of Palestinians and repeat false claims about Oct 7th, even when the Israeli spokespeople have debunked them themselves! And I think we’re past Oct 7th now, as the Israeli response has become so far from disproportionate that most countries have voted yes to a ceasefire at the UN. Israel has lost any legitimacy in continuing to use the Holocaust to justify its genocidal actions and ethnic cleansing.

I don't think my core views regarding the long standing conflict have changed, however I can say maybe I have more awareness of some aspects that I didn't before. Anti-Semitism rising being one of them. And that Palestinian lives don't matter as much to some being another.

I always knew about IDF brutality but this war has really opened my eyes to the extent of it. I have truly been shocked to see how many people down play/minimise/excuse the horrific suffering and brutal ongoing onslaught of the Palestinians.
There's alot more but it will turn into an essay so il leave it as that

was just reading the IDF have bulldozed people sheltering in tents in front of a hospital. desecrated mosques, graveyards, killed newborn babies and civilians at point blank range, dysentery and cholera on its way. :(

@LeaveBritneyAlone
But at the expense of thousands of innocent civilians eh?

Do you live in a fairyland?

How long do you realistically think that will last before they’re driven out by hate and terror? You should never approach this from a place that any country wants to live peacefully with Jews. They don’t. Anti-semtism is ever growing. Why can’t Jews have ONE country they will be safe in? There are still Jews alive today who have been through the Holocaust. Why the fuck should they experience hate and exile again?

@LeaveBritneyAlone "So where do you expect all the Jews to go?"

I don't expect them to go anywhere. They can stay and live amongst the Palestinians with equal rights for all.

That is such a good question. I haven’t changed my mind but I have been interested to hear other points of view and I know more about the conflict than I did before. It’s good to have a space to discuss these things and I’m happy to live in a country where we are freely able to do so. I hope we can maintain our right to free speech and tolerance for points of view we don’t agree with. I don’t want to live in a society that is governed by fear and control of differences.

My views haven't changed. I still support Palestine and I think Netanyahu/IDF have gone way too far in their killing of civilians. I deeply resent the UKs support of this project, and am angry that those calling for a ceasefire often get smeared as pro Hamas. Those feelings have only intensified.
I just want to say that I condemn antisemitism in all its forms, and even before this awful conflict, I have always been quite diligent about trying to deepen my understanding the Jewish perspective. I 100% believe Jewish people when they say antisemitism exists in the uk, and I actually quit my membership of Labour a few years ago because I felt that they were turning blind eyes to the problem. I have always tried my utmost in my pro-palestinian support over the years to distance myself from people on the left who hold extreme and intolerant views, and have pulled friends up on antisemitic tropes in the past. I will continue to do so.
So in a nutshell, my views are the same as ever - staunchly pro Palestine (but anti Hamas). I guess I'm doubling down on my efforts to conduct myself with integrity and make sure I don't do anything to stoke hate- for example my workplace has an optional training on antisemitism, and I signed up straight away. But I still believe in a ceasefire.

So where do you expect all the Jews to go?

Jews have ONE country they can call their own - and the ONLY reason they can do that is because of the most extreme genocide of our era. Six million Jews murdered, only for the survivors to be liberated and driven out their own countries through deep hatred. Do you h detest and why the Jews needed a homeland and why they reclaimed their land? That FYI has never been Palestinian owned. Also FYI there are 60 Muslim and Arab countries and not one has offered a home to their fellow man in Palestine. Yet it’s Jews who need to go elsewhere?

There is a history of Jewish exile that goes back thousands of years. Anti-demotion is alive and well. Jews make up a tiny percentage of the world ms population and yet experience the most religious discrimination. It terrifies me that less than 100 years after the Holocaust, it’s happening again - kicking Jews out their homes under the guise of “They’re getting too powerful we need to get rid of them”. The very same propaganda is being used that the Nazis used in magazines, posters, literature. And look what happened there.

Yes the cruel shooting of sheltering families at point blank range a few days ago, including mothers, children and newborn babies was a special kind of low. Totally inexcusable.

I feel more anger at Israel, not less.

Anyone who slaughters innocent children is vile. Both sides are guilty of this. But “we” were asked to fully support the side that in my view is actually the worse of the two. The settlers have been awful and the Palestinians have suffered a great deal. And Israel’s recent behaviour - killing thousands and thousands of children in a few short weeks and destroying the futures of many more - has been completely unjustifiable. I understand why the US continues to send military aid - if they didn’t, Israel would be quickly wiped out and it is, after all, America’s aircraft carrier in the Middle East. But I think the US along with all the other Western countries seem increasingly uneasy at what they are funding.

As a child I was given a book on the founding of Israel by parents who were happy for the Jewish people. As a student I visited Dachau - almost a rite of passage for all European students - and was appalled.

But I am afraid that Israel with its racist, land-grabbing, mass-child-slaughtering elected government has completely lost its way.

I feel like this too. The pro Palestine marchers really made me shocked and the extreme views from the left, were dreadful. The anti semitism on the Labour Party which i understand is gradually being sorted.

I've also distanced myself from people who see terrorists as freedom fighters. I mean they raped and tortured people. Peace activists were slaughtered too. They didn't care and seemed to enjoy killing on the videos they took.

I now realise there is much more history.

I think what you're describing is the extreme left and you get those entrenched extremist views on the left and right. The majority of people tend to sit in the middle and veer slightly either way depending on the issue. In Ireland we have a couple of very left wing parties in our opposition such as "people before profit". I do agree with a bit of what they say and oppose, but every now and again those extreme views come through which completely puts off me and more middle ground voters.
I guess what I'm saying is the views you describe, I feel are in the minority, and most of us can see the bigger picture and understand the importance of condemning Israeli oppression of the Palestinians and the current genocide while at the same time condemning Hamas attacks and the growth in antisemitism.We are capable of both.

I've become very educated as to the cruelty of Hamas and the IDF that's for sure. And more educated on the oppression of Palestinians as a whole.

Sad at the clapping on of war crimes and collective punishment.

I've always understood that it's been the Israeli government's intention to actively marginalise and contain the Palestinians and to slowly take control of more and more land. There's so much evidence for this. I also understood the history of the Jewish people and I believed in the right to have 'safe' state. I am and always have supported a two state solution.

I don't watch TV or read much news, so a lot of my information comes from left wing activists. What really surprised me was how fervently everyone jumped on the Free Palestine bandwagon with hardly any condemnation of Hamas. I got the impression that people were actively supportive of the Hamas 'resistance'. I heard people say things like 'There's a lot of misinformation about Hamas'. All of the criticism was directed towards Israel. The tone shifted too. In these left wing circles, you're not allowed to raise any concern about the rise of anti-Semitism otherwise you're seen as uninformed and against the cause of Free Palestine. You're also not allowed to say that a situation is 'complex' as you get cancelled. Any kind of nuance is shut down immediately.

I think what has happened in Gaza is completely beyond defense due to the number of civilian casualties, most of them children, the power imbalance, the lack of proportionality and the relentlessness with with the Israeli government have acted. I think Israel need to immediately stop and rethink their strategy. I support any efforts to work towards peace, while recognising how entrenched the issues are and how intractable the conflict has been.

What has changed in me is a growing disdain for leftist activism (which has always been my political home) which is almost completely blind to anti-semitism and shuts down any conversation that doesn't tally with the agenda, however mild. I see clearer than ever that even though I hold left wing views on the issue, this is not enough for the majority of activists who are almost looking for signs that you're not actually in the 'in group'. The group-think on this is massive.
Either I'm less left wing than I thought (maybe as I'm getting older) OR the left has moved and become truly awful and intolerant to any divergent views, while pretending that they're the compassionate ones and everyone else is uncaring.
I'm now moving away from those types of circles because I just find it so hostile. Long term I'll continue to support peace efforts and a two state solution. Short term I'll continue to buy Palestinian products and donate to emergency aid in Gaza, I'll continue to march to end the violence and murder of innocent children, and I'll continue call out anti-Semitism. I'll continue to learn and deepen my understanding of the conflict. I do think all those things should be possible without vitriol from the left.

Of course you'd want Hamas eradicated but at the current cost to innocent Palestinians? Can't see myself ever supporting that amount of indiscriminate killing of my neighbours and certainly not in my name.

Sort of, but not in the way you were likely thinking about OP.

I'm Jewish. After two months of the rhetoric on here I now feel that antisemitism is more widespread in the UK than I'd previously thought. (I don't support the current Israeli gov't, fwiw, and I wish Palestinian people freedom from Hamas.) I also feel like I need to avoid "hot takes" when thinking about other conflicts, because the ill-informed content on here - not from everyone of course - has been maddening.

This is my overriding perspective.

I want Hamas gone. They are not fit to run Palestine.

I am by nature a peacemaker. Someone who sees every point of view. I have always had sympathy and understanding of all sides.

I have been shocked in the last couple of weeks at the intensity of my feelings against the Israeli government. The feelings of such anger are alien to me and I am surprised by some of the thoughts that have come into my head. Partly fuelled by the news and partly by the cold comments of zionists online.

I didn't realise that Lebanese/Phalangists had carried out that slaughter of Palestinian people whilst the world did nothing.

I wasn't aware that 25 000 Syrians had been slaughtered in 19 months. I didn't know the number of people just that problems and uprising/fighting had been going on for a long time.

So much death and horror in that area.