Has anyone changed their mind from what they have read on here?

So in order that Israeli children stay in Israel thousands of innocent Gazan children must be slaughtered? Can you not see how fucked up that is?

Oh so Jewish children aren’t our problem but we must do all we can for Palestinian children?

Why the fuck can’t people just admit they hate Jewish people

@LeaveBritneyAlone Now, I wasn't personally alive at the time, but I'm fairly sure that the general consensus is that the Nazis were responsible for the Holocaust in WW2.

Palestinians alive today did not kill those people.

In terms of rolling over and allowing genocide, yes, that does seem to be what many people are doing at the moment. And it's sickening.

It is not the problem of today’s children.

What about Israeli children? What thinking that Jewish children should be exiled from their homes to be in nations that will almost certainly treat them the way they treated their grandparents, do for them? Genuine question

Correct - but did you read the last part of my post? I feel like you really haven’t

This is the sort of disordered, fucked up thinking the Gazan children are up against.

The Palestinians did not do the Holocaust. The Gazan children currently being slaughtered in their thousands did not do the Holocaust. Dear God, is this your argument? That it’s ok to murder innocent children because of the Holocaust? Bloody hell.

The bottom line is that Israel has murdered exponentially more Palestinians than Palestinians have murdered Israelis.

Have you counted the six million Jews murdered in the Holocaust?

If your thinking “but the Palestinians didn’t do that” - the reason it’s relevant is because exile from their ONE Jewish land - which is what Palestinians and many anti-semites want - would result in this again. So it’s important to factor it in as a relevant number. It hasn’t even been 80 years FFS and people are happy to roll over and let it happen again, swallowing the EXACT SAME message Eastern European countries did last time

This resonates with me a lot. I’m Jewish and left wing, and the refusal or inability of left wing pro-Palestinian supporters to even consider how their actions and arguments impact on Jews has been really depressing. And how left wing support in any conflict for the perceived underdogs can hide a mass of complexities.

And yes - the deep certainty and knowledge of twenty year old ‘experts’ who have read a few Twitter feeds and seen some blurry unverified photos makes me roll my eyes. In particular their simplistic characterisation of Israeli society as a bunch of warmongers. I mentioned on one thread that it’s much more complicated than this, and cited the assassination of the left wing Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin in the 1990s by a right wing settler extremist. They had no idea who he was…

No. Pro Hamas. And there’s plenty of them.

No. I have been shocked at the ignorance of many of those on the pro-Palestinian side though, so much so that I can't even be bothered to engage anymore.

I haven't changed my view on what I believe is right and wrong, or my concerns about certain forces.

What I have learned, sadly, is that some people have demonstrated that they are even more lacking in compassion than I thought.

People have cheered the deaths of my friends and colleagues.

People have openly told me that my child and I should go to die in an air strike.

People verbally and physically attack me, and my friends, and other people are ok with that.

We live in a world where my child's life matters less to other people because of their blood. We live in a world where people either celebrate or shrug when children like my child are murdered.

And re pay per slay, the IDF soldiers currently slaughtering children in their thousands get paid by the Israeli government. Don’t they?

The hypocrisy and double standards would be laughable if so many children weren’t dying.

And I have seen plenty of videos of Israeli schoolchildren being taught hate-filled songs and doctrine against Palestinians. So your jihad summer camp accusation works both ways.

It is not a nuts comparison. Unless you think that thousands and thousands of innocent Palestinian lives are worth less than Israeli lives? Do you?

The bottom line is that Israel has murdered exponentially more Palestinians than Palestinians have murdered Israelis. The facts are there in black and white. And that was BEFORE the current mass slaughter of children.

Regarding the OP I knew Israel was behaving badly but until reading many of these facts on Mumsnet and elsewhere (freely available pretty much everywhere, including verified MSM) I didn’t realise how badly. So my opinion of Israel has worsened considerably since this recent escalation of mass murder on both sides, but especially on Israel’s.

How on earth can you compare Palestinian deaths to Israeli?

Israel protects it’s citizens. By law every residential and Industrial building (even school bus stops and playgrounds) have to have bomb shelters and warning sirens, and it created the iron dome costing billions to protect its citizens from constant rocket attacks which will have prevented thousands of deaths and casualties.

I wonder how many Israeli deaths the blockade prevented after a terrorist government were voted in in Gaza?

Compare with Hamas stating publicly that Gazan civilians are not their responsibility, miles of terrorist tunnels built built with billions of aid but no bomb shelters, and constantly firing upon Israel with a well documented strategy of using civilians as human shields (indoctrinated to believe that dying as a martyr for their cause will guarantee them a place in paradise which despite absolutely no proof to the contrary is better than living a peaceful life on earth) and using civilian buildings as military bases and armouries.

There’s also the ‘pay per slay’ policy operated by the PLO and Hamas where families are promised apartments and a monthly stipend for terrorist attacks.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund

I don’t believe Israel operates summer schools for kids to practise jihad or has a similar pay per slay policy for civilians to carry out terrorist attacks on Palestinians or have I missed that?

Nuts comparison and no, there should have been no civilian deaths on either side.

@FrozenWindscreen

Well clearly Israel has its own views on the Naqba.

Rather than try to untangle that, let’s move to a more recent time frame where deaths on both sides have been accurately and independently verified.

How do you feel about these facts and figures?. (pre Oct 7)

Do you even know why the ‘Naqba’ was called the ‘Great Catastrophe’? I’ll give you a clue - who won the 1948 Arab-Israeli war and who started it?

It would make more sense if it was called the ‘Great Ethnic Cleansing’ from the Palestinian POV.

This is very interesting as it includes copies of communications from the time:

https://david-collier.com/1948-nakba/

Also this, especially if you read the About Us section to explain why this this website was set up in the first place:

https://honestreporting.com/the-nakba-narrative-a-history-of-deception/

Hiccup, burp, repeat, echo etc

Is that meant to be self-explanatory as well? 😂

I’m not saying there’s any excuse for hamas behaviour. That goes without saying. The fact we have to say it for Israel is the confusing part.

And hamas are not recognised as a government by our country. They are a designated terrorist group. So am I surprised when terrorists do terrorist things - no. Does that excuse it or make it right. Obviously not!!!! The oct attacks were barbaric and disgusting. Absolute savages who deserve nothing more than to hid in holes in the ground in fear. But that doesn’t mean Israel can bomb a whole country. It just doesn’t.

In the same way I don’t think it’s acceptable for us to carpet bomb Iran or any other Muslim state because we have terror attacks here. That should go without saying.

Do pro-Hamas posters understand how terrifying that is?

Do you mean the pro Palestinian posters?

Bumper zone, no UK or US or French involvement ever again because whatever they touch, it turns to ash looking at history and today. Neutral Peace guarantors to keep peace and real enforcement not some measly excuse like the UN . Siege to end to allow Palestinians to prosper on its own. Israel has to fear this enforcement and so does the Palestinians.

So it goes back to two state solution to end this bloodshed but good luck to the world enforcing this because this will never ever happen as long as the US and UK facilitate arming and practicing silent dictatorship to favour one and only Israel for their own interest. I hope in my lifetime there will be long term peace. ✌️

@stormy4319trevor
This

@LeaveBritneyAlone Of course, but the land has to be shared. There's no other fair solution. Israel does need some firm borders, rather than flexible ones that extend into the WB, Syria and now Gaza. They have the military might to defend those borders once they have been defined and internationally agreed. If a contiguous state of Palestine can be created there will be nothing else to fight about, surely. The two countries can just ignore each other, and maybe in time become more friendly.